Episode 4

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Published on:

23rd Jan 2025

10:04 Paper Moon

Exploring the complexities of werewolf lore, this week’s episode takes a deep dive into Season 10, Episode 4 titled "Paper Moon" from the beloved supernatural series. Hosts Diana and Liz dissect the episode's themes of identity and the struggle between humanity and monstrosity. Liz talks more about the Werewolf Trials of medieval France, the judge Henri Bouget, and the Gandilon werewolf family.

Research Links

Transcript
Liz:

On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.

Diana:

Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.

Diana:

I'm Diana.

Liz:

And I'm Liz.

Diana:

And we're Gonna Talk Season 10, Episode 4, Paper Moon.

Liz:

Paper moon indeed.

Liz:

What have you been up to?

Diana:

I have been full of snot, so not much.

Diana:

Now I'm better.

Diana:

It's.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

Tis the season or something, right?

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

I don't think I gave you my sickness from where I was.

Liz:

But no, it's.

Liz:

It's.

Liz:

Things are going around and then they're just not going away and everything is fine.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

But.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So now that that's been about it here.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

How about you?

Liz:

Oh, you know, we.

Liz:

We finally.

Liz:

We got a little bit of snow today, so we didn't quite have a snow apocalypse that think, you know.

Liz:

No, but it was just like an inch of snow.

Liz:

So I got to see deer frolic and snow, which is always, always fun.

Liz:

And I didn't have to drive anywhere, so that was also okay.

Diana:

And.

Liz:

But, you know, I'm glad.

Liz:

I've kind of just pretty much run out of television.

Liz:

But then I discovered there was a new series on.

Liz:

A new series, an old series that was a British series and also an American one called Being Human, and it's about a werewolf and a vampire and a ghost who live with each other.

Liz:

And so, yeah, it is really good and funny and I don't know how I' ever watched it.

Liz:

And I found it when I was doing research for Laura this week, and I was like, oh, I didn't know about this episode or this show.

Liz:

And then I found out there was a British version and an American version.

Liz:

So now I have a new vampire show to watch.

Diana:

Yay, new vampire shows.

Diana:

Hey.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So I have a Brit box trial for the first one for the.

Liz:

The British version.

Liz:

So I have to finish all five seasons in seven days or I'm going to have to finish pay.

Diana:

Pressure is on.

Liz:

It's on.

Liz:

I mean, I can do that day probably if I really want to, but.

Liz:

Oh, yeah.

Liz:

So that's what's going on.

Liz:

You know, it's January, so things are kind of slow.

Liz:

Television's picking back up, but nothing new in supernatural Land.

Liz:

Well, kind of creation started posting panels from past con.

Liz:

n's panel from Nashville from:

Liz:

So it was.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

It was the last.

Liz:

The last one they did.

Liz:

Last con from last year.

Liz:

And so their.

Liz:

Their little spiel with each other is always fun to watch.

Liz:

I was watching it before we.

Liz:

We started recording.

Liz:

So that's on YouTube.

Liz:

And they said they're going to start posting a whole bunch of more stuff there.

Diana:

Okay, cool.

Diana:

But not the YouTube.

Diana:

Adding the content.

Liz:

Adding content.

Liz:

Everybody's all about the content.

Liz:

Let's see.

Liz:

Just say you find me when you find me, and we'll just chug.

Liz:

We'll chug along.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

So on that note, let's talk about paper moon.

Liz:

So a paper moon, according to the supernatural Wiki, is a term for a spherical paper lantern that can be used to provide artificial moonlight in film production, which I guess I knew that term, but I don't think I really thought about it.

Liz:

So.

Diana:

Yeah, I always thought of it more.

Liz:

Like a paper moon, I guess, you know, is a fake, fake moon.

Liz:

But, you know, a thing that is.

Liz:

It could like it's falsely real.

Liz:

I guess everything that's fake is falsely real.

Liz:

But it's.

Diana:

I don't know, I think I just always heard the term and I never really thought about it, which.

Diana:

That makes me sound dumb.

Diana:

But I don't mean it that way.

Diana:

I just mean, like, it's a term I had heard, but I never really, like, delved into where.

Liz:

Yeah, I so just want to explain it.

Liz:

So we, like, you know, if you saw a movie set from afar, you would think that was a real moon.

Liz:

And then you got up close and you would see it with paper.

Liz:

So that illusion of something being real but being fake.

Liz:

So that could be why it was called this.

Liz:

I don't know.

Liz:

So this.

Liz:

,:

Liz:

Janos Varvark.

Liz:

Sure.

Liz:

And was written by Adam Glass.

Diana:

Nice.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

We open up at.

Diana:

In Durham, Washington, at Panheads Roadhouse, which, shockingly, is a biker bar.

Liz:

A Panhead is a part of a.

Diana:

Motorcycle, if you don't know it is.

Diana:

And we've got.

Diana:

As a little hintaroo about what we're gonna have in this episode, we've got Warren Zevs Werewolf in London playing, which, you know, is.

Liz:

You know, I pretty much had.

Liz:

As I was doing Werewolf.

Liz:

Spoiler alert.

Liz:

We're gonna have some more werewolf lore.

Liz:

But as I was doing werewolf lore research, I had Werewolves of London.

Liz:

Gets in my head, like, probably like three quarters of the year.

Liz:

That song is stuck in my head because it's just so.

Liz:

That part is just so catchy.

Diana:

It is very catchy, London.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

So anyhow, it's like what, piano rock?

Diana:

Like, isn't that what that don't they have piano, I guess.

Liz:

Yeah, piano.

Diana:

Like that's a thing, man.

Diana:

It could.

Diana:

It's.

Diana:

It's jamming.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

I could not name another song that.

Diana:

Banded no horns at Davis.

Diana:

Of course I asked, babe.

Diana:

I'm like, tell me about this band.

Diana:

And then he started.

Diana:

He told me something interesting and then I stopped listening.

Diana:

Yeah, he watched a lot of music documentaries, but I guess I.

Diana:

I do know that Warren Zimmons is.

Diana:

Is deceased, but he has apparently was like a really good songwriter.

Diana:

There we go.

Liz:

Yeah, I'm sure if we.

Liz:

If we do behind them, we can do it behind the music and find and learn lots of things about.

Liz:

About this man that I.

Liz:

That I probably know and like Diana just got replaced.

Liz:

With other knowledge.

Diana:

Yes.

Diana:

Additionally, I would just want to cite since we obviously are talking about werewolves.

Diana:

There is a new.

Diana:

What is it?

Diana:

Wolfman movie out right now.

Diana:

There is.

Liz:

There is a new one that's out in the movie theaters.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So it's just.

Diana:

That was good.

Diana:

Timely.

Liz:

It's.

Liz:

It's a time of wolves.

Liz:

Wolves.

Diana:

Timely for us, coincidentally, but there we go.

Diana:

So we have a really cool first person view, in my opinion.

Diana:

I really like the way this intro is shot as they.

Diana:

It's obviously a female who's getting a lot of attention because we get a couple little hints of that.

Diana:

We see a charm bracelet and we see her lips, but other than that, we don't see who this person is.

Diana:

They are just walking in and a lot of the dudes at the biker bar are making eye contact or making eyes at her.

Diana:

It's a lot.

Diana:

And then the ladies are mad, girls are mad.

Liz:

And I've felt this room before.

Diana:

Right.

Diana:

Like.

Diana:

Oh, yeah, I know.

Diana:

I don't remember what that felt like.

Diana:

Okay.

Liz:

It does not feel good.

Liz:

It really doesn't.

Liz:

Like, I don't want to get like male attention and female attention all at the same time.

Liz:

And like, neither of them are positive, really.

Diana:

Not really.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So.

Liz:

But.

Liz:

So I did appreciate this very point of view shot.

Liz:

Although, like, it's with anything, like goes just a blur.

Liz:

Which stuff too.

Liz:

Like, it just kind of makes me nauseous a little bit just because it's a little shaky.

Diana:

But no, no, this one, I.

Diana:

If it had gone on much longer, it would have bothered me.

Diana:

But yeah, for.

Diana:

For this time.

Liz:

Like, it was a short enough amount of time that it was an interesting choice.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And so she goes and picks up, approaches a dude, a gentleman who is playing pool.

Diana:

Gets him outside and rips open his shirt.

Diana:

And first he's real into it because he's like, oh.

Diana:

And then she grows claws and slits his throat.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

His throat slit.

Liz:

And he got no heart.

Liz:

Oops.

Diana:

Nope.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So we cut to Sam and Dean sitting on the edge of a lake drinking beers.

Liz:

It's a very pretty lake.

Liz:

It looks lovely.

Liz:

This looks like a very lovely day.

Diana:

And apparently Dean is asking Sam about his elbow and mocks his sprained elbow because of his.

Diana:

He's still got the shoulder sling on.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Oswick Chow tweeted during the live tweets of this episode.

Liz:

He was like, I hope this is the last time they bring up the demon sling.

Liz:

If you guys did not hear that episode.

Liz:

And I don't know what you're doing listening to our episodes out of order.

Liz:

But the reason Jared Petalecki's arm is in a sling is because Osric, who played Kevin and Jared were wrestling at a convention in Italy.

Liz:

And in Osric busted Jared's shoulder.

Liz:

So that is why it's in a sling.

Liz:

But, yeah, it's been brought up every episode.

Liz:

It's kind of funny now.

Diana:

I also am deeply amused that where they are sitting next to the water is right under a posted no hunting sign.

Liz:

Yes.

Diana:

Well done.

Diana:

Well played.

Diana:

Yes, well played.

Diana:

Anyways, so Sam and Dean are going to talk about how they're doing.

Diana:

Dean's good.

Diana:

They got three more cases of beer iced down in the trunk.

Diana:

That's a lot of beer iced down in the trunk.

Diana:

Where is everything else from trunk?

Diana:

Does it all fit?

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

Are they going to drink all that beer in one day?

Diana:

What is happening?

Liz:

Knowing them, probably.

Liz:

And this depends on how much whiskey they had.

Diana:

Oh, well, this is their wee time is what they're calling it.

Liz:

Oh, everyone should get some wee time.

Diana:

It was cute.

Diana:

I know.

Diana:

We need we time.

Diana:

I haven't seen you in too long.

Diana:

Anyways.

Diana:

But anyways, they're both like, oh, we both definitely saw this article in the paper about these animal attacks, though, because we couldn't resist.

Diana:

But looking at those.

Diana:

And Dean decides to share that he not just wants, but he needs to work a case.

Diana:

And Sam needs to know if Dean's ready to work a case.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

But Sam reluctantly agrees.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

So we get to the King county sheriff, and Sam and Dean are not Phoebe's this time.

Diana:

They are game wardens.

Liz:

And this sheriff has been lucky enough to see raccoons in rec rooms and to see bears in swimming pools.

Liz:

Now, I am not particularly a fan of law enforcement as a profession, but if someone told me that I got to see bears in swimming pools.

Liz:

I would be like, sign me up, I'll be a sheriff.

Liz:

Yes, sir.

Diana:

Well, apparently sheriffs and out in the woods see some interesting stuff.

Diana:

And Dean is not good at seeing.

Diana:

Selling the fact that they are game wardens to him.

Diana:

But it doesn't matter.

Diana:

They're gonna tell.

Diana:

The sheriff's gonna tell them all about this case anyway.

Diana:

Where the victim's hearts were absent, likely consumed.

Diana:

And there are no witnesses except Tommy, but he's not very reliable.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

But he says he saw some girl, so.

Liz:

And.

Liz:

But there's no body.

Liz:

He's like.

Liz:

Swears there was a girl, but there's no body.

Liz:

So everyone just thinks Tommy is being Tommy.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So Sam and Nina are like, this definitely sounds wolfie.

Diana:

I mean, once they're out of earshot of the sheriff, obviously, and they're gonna go to fucking Panhead's Roadhouse to talk to Tommy's buddy who was killed, whose name is.

Diana:

Catch this.

Diana:

Barker.

Diana:

Wolf.

Diana:

Wolf's dogs.

Diana:

Barker what?

Diana:

The guy that got killed.

Diana:

Name is Barker.

Diana:

That's hilarious.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And then he also says that they were chasing tail.

Liz:

Yes.

Diana:

I'm like, okay, the writer had way too much fun with this.

Diana:

Gold star.

Diana:

Gold star, sir.

Diana:

I'm into the puns.

Diana:

I'm here for it.

Diana:

So anyways, but basically Tommy saw that there was a lot of yelling.

Diana:

And anyways, it.

Diana:

It was.

Diana:

His friend was all torn up and he.

Diana:

Then he starts denying that he saw a chick at all.

Diana:

Because they're.

Diana:

They're like.

Diana:

They could tell.

Diana:

He's nervous though.

Diana:

And so he's like, well, we're not.

Diana:

We're not really cops is what Sam says.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

And I felt like Liz would really appreciate Tommy's response.

Diana:

He says, a badge is a badge.

Liz:

Even if you're just a game warden.

Liz:

But he also, like, he has enough besides just not wanting to, you know, having knowing that you shouldn't talk to cops without a lawyer.

Liz:

He does, like, also has a valid point that this is a very small town and he doesn't want to be ridiculed for what he's about to say.

Diana:

For sure.

Diana:

Absolutely.

Diana:

And so Dean's like, look, we see a lot of weird shit that we can't explain out in the woods, from ghosts to whatever else.

Diana:

So finally he's like, look, I saw the same girl that I saw behind.

Diana:

I saw the girl is shut.

Diana:

That I think is the girl that he thinks is dead.

Diana:

He saw her standing outside as.

Diana:

Outside of a farm in town or on the edge of town.

Liz:

And yeah.

Liz:

Which to me goes what do you think you saw?

Diana:

He thinks he saw a ghost.

Liz:

No, because they were attacking.

Liz:

Like, I think he felt that she was attacked.

Liz:

Right.

Diana:

And so they don't explain this well.

Diana:

And I had to.

Diana:

It took me a Mitch process too.

Diana:

Basically, Tommy does not think that the chick is the attacker.

Diana:

Tommy thinks that the.

Diana:

Some blonde chick and Barker got attacked by the same thing and they're both dead.

Diana:

And she just gone.

Diana:

Her body's gone.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

It still doesn't make a lot of sense because who is the attacker?

Liz:

Like he.

Diana:

Yeah, they all think it's an animal.

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

It's very weird.

Diana:

They've all so convinced this is an animal that nothing else crosses their mind.

Diana:

So he's like, look, basically she was a bloody ghost standing on the edge of this farm.

Diana:

So Sam and Eat are gonna go to the farm.

Diana:

No longer in there.

Diana:

No longer in game warden uniforms now though.

Diana:

So they go to this farm and they're sneaking in, guns drawn and they find a row of dead chickens with their hearts removed.

Diana:

And so I don't mean to laugh, but it actually is really funny looking.

Diana:

It's just like a row, like a path, a Hansel and Gretel path of dead chickens missing their hearts.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Well, also weird that she just.

Liz:

Chicken hearts are very small.

Liz:

Like why don't you just eat the whole chicken?

Liz:

Like it seems like a lot of effort to go through for a tiny little heart.

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

Maybe.

Diana:

But don't they only eat hearts?

Diana:

Isn't that a werewolf thing?

Liz:

I feel like they want to like.

Liz:

Like remember like with Garth and his family, like they were eating meat.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

You know they eat other organ parts.

Liz:

It's not just the heart.

Liz:

Right.

Diana:

Heart's just a preferred part.

Diana:

That's true.

Diana:

Seems very.

Diana:

So.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So Dean makes a joke that this.

Liz:

There's.

Liz:

That they've got a she wolf and that she wolf likes bad boys.

Liz:

So we're going to talk about some she wolves or about some wolves that were.

Diana:

She.

Liz:

No, they weren't sheep, but.

Liz:

Because sheep wolves would be something else.

Liz:

But that's talking about sheep wolves either.

Liz:

But we are going to go back in time to my favorite place, which is medieval France.

Liz:

So.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So this is Laura and we talked a little bit about the werewolf trials back in season two, episode 17, Heart, when the first times that we saw werewolves, we're just going to kind of pick.

Liz:

Pick apart that a little bit.

Liz:

A little bit more.

Liz:

So we're going back to medieval France so I can make my sad French accents and this was a time of an anti witchcraft movement.

Liz:

So all of Europe was into like going after the witches.

Liz:

And the demonologists were all writing their books about how to catch a witch.

Liz:

And the witches though could be shape shifters, the AKA werewolves.

Liz:

Right, right.

Liz:

And one of the reasons that they were really going after these witches was they were not only seen as heretical and rebelling against God, but also the godly authority of the ruling government.

Liz:

So not only is this a we're going after witches, this is also very political, which is my favorite type of thing, so cult and political shit.

Liz:

So these different countries across Europe had different criteria for what defined a werewolf.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

So if you're taking someone to court and you're saying, I, I am charging with being a werewolf, you have to have some, some things.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

So England had some, some things in France, but most other places was just kind of like left up to the accusers to be like, this is what makes a werewolf.

Diana:

Right.

Liz:

They're pretty much the same criteria though as witches.

Liz:

Just they added in the extra, I can turn, you know, shape shifting things.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

And these werewolves at this time could be male or female and generally came from shockingly the lower classes of society and could be vagrants, beggars, healers, religious and sexual deviants, or the pagans.

Liz:

They could be lone werewolves, but deviants do love a deviant.

Liz:

They could be lone werewolves, but mainly acted in packs.

Liz:

Rebellion against God given orders, against Catholicism and the kingship itself, however.

Liz:

So not only did the Catholics have this thing, so did the prodigals, right?

Liz:

So the Protestants were like, well, all the Catholics are witches, so they are like.

Liz:

So we don't have, we don't want to have any witches, any potpourri, because those are both being found, founded in superstition and lore.

Liz:

Right?

Liz:

So we have the Catholics being like, we don't like werewolves, and then the Protestants like, we don't like werewolves, we're Catholics.

Liz:

The Catholics also didn't like the Protestants.

Liz:

This was the big thing that was happening.

Diana:

Sure.

Liz:

So out of this time comes the man, Henri Bouget.

Liz:

He was an ambitious social climber.

Liz:

wrote Discourse de sorcies in:

Liz:

And Henri had declared war against witches and he spread stories basically saying there were thousands of witches that were ready to team with Satan and to overthrow the government.

Liz:

So the witches are coming for the King.

Liz:

And so to help with this war, he suggested the appointment of a single judge who only dealt with witch hunting so as not to be distracted with all those silly things that happen in non witch trials like property, murder, whatever people were trying for.

Liz:

But.

Liz:

So he eventually gets that appointment within his territory.

Liz:

And when he serves, there's lots of.

Liz:

We talked about this in the last episode.

Liz:

There are many exaggerations about all the people that he had put to death.

Liz:

Reality was about 35 people were accused under his trials of being witches.

Liz:

28 were executed, including eight werewolves.

Liz:

Four died in prison, two others were banished, and one she werewolf was lynched.

Liz:

So Henri held it as a scientific fact that the seed of a human soul is in the brain.

Liz:

So if you compare a wolf head to a person head, there is no way that you could go from a human into a wolf without losing some of your brain.

Liz:

Ipso facto, werewolves can't exist because man cannot lose parts of his soul.

Liz:

So basically, they're not turning into wolves, they're just making people think they're wolves or they're deluded to think that they themselves are wolves.

Liz:

Right.

Diana:

Huh?

Liz:

Got it.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Okay, so, but if a person doesn't wolf out, how are they committing all these heinous crimes that they're accused of?

Liz:

Well, with knives and swords.

Liz:

Duh.

Liz:

Or rocks or whatever else you can kill a person with.

Diana:

And thus, though, I mean, I guess it's.

Diana:

I guess that's pretty impressive that he's like, yeah, no, humans can't turn into wolves.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

I mean, that seems like some scientific logic.

Liz:

You're still trying somewhere from being a witch and werewolf, but.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

At least you're like, she's not turning into a dog.

Diana:

But that's crazy.

Liz:

She's like turning into a.

Liz:

She's causing hail, but she's not.

Liz:

What the.

Liz:

Like, no one can turn into a dog.

Liz:

Her head is too.

Diana:

Nonsense.

Liz:

Her head is shorter than a wolf's head.

Diana:

I'm just.

Diana:

Okay.

Diana:

I'm just processing like the.

Diana:

Yep.

Diana:

Okay.

Liz:

So thus, though, this also was important for.

Liz:

For a court because then the crimes, like the crimes were that not the devil, with their consent in the shape of a wolf, or the wandering spirit which had shifted in the animal form.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

So that really means that Satan was not the one who was doing whatever they were accused of.

Liz:

It was the person who was in league with Satan.

Liz:

Henri did love using child witches at witnesses, believing that's how you expose a witch slash wolf pack.

Liz:

Echoing other witchcraft accusations and trials, children who were afflicted with demonic possession were then exorcised by the Jesuits.

Liz:

And then the kids would accuse the adults in the village of being the ones who like gave them the demon or who just took them along to Witches Sabbath.

Liz:

Those lucky children.

Liz:

And what a fun way to spend your Saturday night.

Liz:

So lucky.

Liz:

So he goes through and he writes this book.

Liz:

And so this is going to be a story from one of his books of a family that was.

Liz:

We're going to find out what happened to them.

Liz:

So this is the Gandion Gandelon, or I'm going to say Gandhi on, because I'm not good at speaking French and.

Liz:

But it's G A N D I L O N if anybody wants to look it up.

Liz:

So the Gandhi on family came from an area that was being plagued by werewolves, wolves.

Liz:

And the story read you is from the Discourse de Sorcier.

Liz:

I don't know who's responsible for the translation, but this version is from monstrous.com.

Liz:

all right, so Pernet Gandion was a poor girl in the water.

Liz:

Europe.

Liz:

No, in the Euro.

Liz:

Sorry, I made it Spanish, not French.

Liz:

But so in this area of France.

Liz:

And in:

Liz:

One day, as she was raging the country in a fit of lycanthropic madness, she came across two children who were plucking wild strawberries filled with a sudden passion for blood.

Liz:

I think maybe because of the strawberries she flew at the little girl and would have brought her down had not her brother, a lad of four years old, defended her lustily with a knife.

Diana:

Huh.

Liz:

So this four year old stabs this other little girl with a knife.

Liz:

And Pernet, however, rinses the weapons from his tiny four year old hand, flung him down and gashed his throat.

Liz:

So he died of the wood out of his wound.

Liz:

Then Pernet was torn to pieces by the people in their rage and horror.

Liz:

Directly after Pierre, the brother of Pernet, was accused of witchcraft.

Liz:

He was charged with having led children to the Sabbath, having made hail, and having run about the country in the form of a wolf.

Liz:

The transformation was effected by means of a salve which he had received from the devil.

Liz:

He had on one occasion assumed the form of a hare.

Liz:

But usually he appeared as a wolf and his skin became covered with shaggy gray hair.

Liz:

He readily acknowledged that the charges brought against him were well founded, and he allowed that he had, during the period of his transformation, fallen on and devoured both beasts and human beings.

Liz:

When he desired to recover his true form, he rolled himself in the dewy grass.

Liz:

Now I don't know about you, but I watch a Dog roll itself with dewy grass, like, every day.

Liz:

So now I'm like, maybe that dog is, like, a person and he's trying to, like, get out from the stairs of h.

Diana:

Let me make sure I heard.

Diana:

Did I hear a salve?

Liz:

A salve, A salve.

Diana:

An ointment.

Liz:

A double self.

Liz:

Double self, Double self.

Liz:

So Pierre's son George asserted that he had also been anointed with the salve and had gone to the Sabbath in the shape of a wolf.

Liz:

According to his own testimony, he had fallen upon two goats in one of his expeditions.

Liz:

I don't know if he, like, ate them or just fell on them.

Liz:

But then one Maundy Thursday night, he had lain for three.

Liz:

I don't know.

Liz:

I do not know what that means.

Liz:

I did not look it up, but it's like saying it Maundy Thursday.

Liz:

So he had lain in.

Liz:

He'd lain for three hours in his bed in a cataleptic state, and at the end of that time had sprung out of the bed.

Liz:

During this period, he had been the form of a wolf.

Liz:

To the witch's Sabbath, his sister Antoinette confessed that she had made hail and she sold herself to the devil, who appeared to her in the shape of a black he goat.

Liz:

She had been to the Sabbath on several occasions.

Liz:

Pierre and Georges in prison behaved as maniacs, running on all fours about themselves and howling dismally.

Liz:

Their faces, arms and legs were frightfully scarred with the wounds they had received from dogs when they had been on their raids.

Liz:

I guess they were not getting along with the other dogs.

Liz:

Bougie accounts for the transformation not taking place by the fact of not having their necessary salves by them.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

Because they didn't have the ointment.

Liz:

So they could.

Liz:

So they could just, like, run around and look like a wolf, but they couldn't, you know, turn into a wolf.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

And all three of them, Pierre, Georges and Antoinette were hung in.

Liz:

Burnt.

Diana:

Of course they were.

Liz:

Of course they were.

Liz:

And also, you know, I like that in this story that whoever interpreted this and translated it, they're like, yeah, he confessed.

Liz:

I'm like, he confessed after he was tortured a bunch.

Liz:

Like, I think you left out the part where how they got to the confession.

Diana:

Right.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

They feel like there's some lead up there that may have not been part of the.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

So again, you know, the werewolf trials are always fascinating because there was.

Liz:

There's one whenever we get into the witchcraft, especially in medieval times, like, there's always some sort of political that's running underneath it somebody's trying to take down a government, someone's trying to replace religion.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

So that's.

Liz:

That thing is always in there.

Liz:

Like I said at this time in this area there were a bunch of wolves that were running around and causing destruction.

Liz:

So they people wanted like answers for that.

Liz:

So saying this is.

Liz:

This family is the one that ate your.

Liz:

Your sheep was the answer.

Diana:

Wild.

Liz:

Wild.

Liz:

Also four year old boy with a knife.

Diana:

Ah, stabby little four year old stabby little toddlers.

Diana:

Unfortunately toddlers and devil solve.

Diana:

Sal.

Diana:

I can't even say it.

Diana:

That's where I'm.

Liz:

That's a new toddlers and tiara.

Liz:

Yeah, yeah, take that.

Diana:

One more tlc please.

Diana:

I feel like, I feel like there's like opportunities here.

Liz:

Well, so I mean you know, just Hermione, hat on.

Liz:

So the salve is like often what they used to say, like witches would rub between their legs and they got onto a broom and that was how they would fly you would you rub the ointment on.

Liz:

That's what you know, the broom went between your legs.

Liz:

But there are also many theories that that was hallucinogenic that women were putting on their twats and then getting high off of what they were taught, what was on their, you know, their genitals and then thinking they were flying elves.

Liz:

We love self turns you into a werewolf, helps you fly, makes you see some tracers.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Interesting.

Liz:

So that was our lore for the week.

Liz:

Now if you go back to the dead chickens, the many, many dead chickens.

Diana:

Well, and we find a girl in the.

Diana:

There is a blonde in the barn and it on the phone.

Diana:

And who is this?

Diana:

Who is our mystery werewolf?

Diana:

It's Kate.

Diana:

As you may recall last time on Supernatural from a previous episode, which I didn't know which one it was from a previous episode of Supernatural.

Diana:

They let a young werewolf chick nicknamed Kate go because they.

Diana:

She promised that she wouldn't kill anybody because she had this whole horror show with her like college boyfriend and his best friend and it was a fiasco.

Liz:

Yep.

Liz:

And then she had to kill him.

Liz:

And then it was a whole thing.

Diana:

It was sad.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So she was from season eight, episode four Bitten.

Liz:

That was when we first saw her.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So we had of like the female werewolf.

Liz:

She's the second female werewolf because we also had Madison which you know, one of the victims of Sam's penis.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Say Sam's dick.

Diana:

Got that one.

Diana:

Anyways, so they tie Kate up because they're like wtf?

Diana:

And she's like oh.

Diana:

And the hunger was just too Hard.

Diana:

There wasn't a handbook here.

Diana:

Blah.

Diana:

And Dean's like, oh.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

And she's like.

Diana:

And Sam's like, why are you killing innocence?

Diana:

And she's like, I don't know, dude.

Diana:

Just do what you're gonna do.

Diana:

And in the midst of this, the sheriff calls.

Diana:

And so Sam and Dean are distracted because they're on the phone with the sheriff, and she has wolfed her hand out enough to, like, use her claw to cut through the ropes they've tied her up with.

Diana:

But essentially they figure out that some.

Diana:

There's been another wolf attack less than an hour ago.

Diana:

So it could not have been Kate.

Liz:

Yeah, but Dean hat was ready to shoot her.

Liz:

Like, he was about to just kill her.

Diana:

It was ready to just shoot her in the head.

Diana:

It was pretty dark.

Diana:

And then so.

Diana:

So she escapes.

Diana:

And they're like, well, why the did.

Diana:

Why?

Diana:

Who is she gonna take the fall for?

Diana:

That's weird.

Diana:

But Dean has her phone because she did not get to take that with her when she ran off.

Diana:

And the last call was to a motel.

Diana:

So now they have a place to go look for her.

Diana:

On the way, they're talking about how Sam's concerned that Dean's not ready.

Diana:

And Dean's like, well, Sam, are you ready because of Lester?

Diana:

And so we get a very emotional flashback routine again about how Sam's like, you know, yes, Dean killed Lester, but Sam made himself.

Liz:

Lester's dead because of Sam and Sam.

Liz:

But also, Sam seems to have made amends with all of this.

Liz:

And it's fine.

Liz:

He's like, what a.

Liz:

Yeah, that's fine.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

He's like, I'm not proud of it, but I'm.

Diana:

It is what it is kind of a thing.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And so Dean's like, well, either way, between that and everything else, we just both needed that time off that we took.

Liz:

We needed a vacay.

Liz:

We needed some self care.

Liz:

And then we're just gonna have an awkward pause in the car until.

Liz:

Until it's daylight.

Diana:

And then they arrive at the motel and they see a blonde female with a hat on step out of the motel room that this girl's supposed to.

Diana:

That Kate's supposedly in.

Diana:

And they see her little charm bracelet.

Diana:

So they decide to follow and onto some nature trail where there's a lot of people.

Diana:

It's very popular.

Liz:

This is a very active park.

Diana:

Very active.

Diana:

And they end up following her.

Diana:

She's following someone else.

Diana:

Ends up, lo and behold, it's a different blonde.

Diana:

And she is like, I don't know what you're talking about?

Liz:

Why are you pulling your guns on me in the middle of this park?

Liz:

Why are you robbing me?

Liz:

Are you gonna rape me?

Liz:

What the fuck is happening?

Diana:

Yeah, but it's all a fucking, like a cover up because this is Kate's sister.

Diana:

We find out because Kate intervenes as she wolfs out and tries to attack.

Diana:

And Kate has to stop them from killing her.

Diana:

So now Dean's like, well, now I really want to kill you.

Diana:

Why is your sister a werewolf?

Diana:

And Kate, he's so aggressive, like, why.

Liz:

Do you have a gun on her?

Liz:

As you're asking this question.

Liz:

You don't need a gun on this.

Diana:

And they're like in the middle of like, a nature trail.

Diana:

There's like, people.

Liz:

They're in the park.

Diana:

This is not.

Liz:

You're in the community park.

Liz:

This is not like the woods.

Liz:

This is like whatever, like Martin Luther King Park.

Liz:

Like, it's, you know, like the entire town of whatever Durham, Washington is in this park.

Diana:

They're all there.

Diana:

So.

Diana:

And she's like, look, I know it doesn't matter.

Diana:

I know it doesn't look good, but I'm not really a killer here.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

But she won't answer when they ask if her sister's the one doing it.

Diana:

So they're gonna go somewhere else to.

Liz:

Discuss also, like, just like pushing her buttons, being like, you killed your, you know, you killed your boyfriend's best friend.

Liz:

And she's like, he was evil.

Liz:

Like, what, you would have killed him too?

Liz:

Like, what the.

Diana:

Yeah, like, what do you.

Diana:

What did you expect me to do?

Liz:

Yeah, and Sam's just like, yeah, let's get.

Liz:

Let's get away from like, this town.

Diana:

And sit and quietly, let's have some coffee and quietly discuss this or something.

Liz:

Let's go to a diner so I can be jealous of people in a diner.

Liz:

Oh, there you go.

Diana:

Well, she's like, look, I've got the silver blade, like, ready to kill myself if I ever go bad.

Liz:

That's a healthy thing to just, like, have in your pocket.

Diana:

Yeah, it's also real weird that she's, like, worried about herself.

Liz:

Suicide.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

But she's also, like, really worried, like, if I ever go bad.

Diana:

But she's letting her sister kill people.

Liz:

Well, and how.

Liz:

Well, I don't think she really, like, she kind of knew it was happening, but I don't think she, like, knew, like, it was as bad as it was.

Diana:

Well, she definitely doesn't know as bad as it gets, but that's what.

Diana:

Yeah, it's still.

Liz:

Yeah, it's just weird to be like.

Liz:

Like, how would you know if you went too far?

Liz:

Like, could you stop.

Liz:

Anyways, so if you went too far.

Diana:

Would you have the.

Diana:

Would you have the judgment?

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Would you know?

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

That's a good question.

Liz:

So.

Liz:

But she.

Liz:

She says she's never hurt anybody who doesn't deserve it.

Liz:

And she never, ever eats human hearts.

Diana:

No.

Diana:

She does a lot of meditation and yoga.

Liz:

And yoga.

Liz:

Yoga is a solution to not being a mean werewolf.

Diana:

There you go.

Diana:

But basically watching down the dogs.

Diana:

Lots of downward dogs, maybe some hot dogs.

Liz:

Yes.

Diana:

So we figure out.

Diana:

We find out.

Diana:

She gives us the backstory is that Tasha is her sister and they were close.

Diana:

And then when she.

Diana:

After she got turned and went off to.

Diana:

When Kate got turned and went off into the sunset, she kind of left her family behind.

Diana:

She really.

Diana:

She didn't want to be a danger to them.

Diana:

But then her sister got to the Winchesters.

Liz:

She was like, I was protecting them from myself and from you.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

But she found out on online that her sister was in a really bad car wreck and might not make it.

Diana:

So she went to say goodbye, but then she realized that, like, well, instead of saying goodbye, I could just turn her into a werewolf, and then she'd have to live on the run for the rest of her life and fighting this urge to murder, but at the same time, she wouldn't be dead.

Liz:

And I handle it just fine.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So she turned her.

Diana:

Here's my.

Diana:

And she kind of makes.

Diana:

She says something about, like, I knew she wouldn't be normal, but at least she would be alive.

Diana:

Like, could she have.

Diana:

Like, what if she had she been in an accident?

Diana:

What if she had been so far gone that she would have, like.

Liz:

Brain damage?

Diana:

Cognitive challenges.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

This seems to be a question like, I don't know.

Liz:

I feel like this is something that has been asked in 8, 000 vampire movies or fan fiction, at least.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

I don't know.

Liz:

You're not so.

Liz:

But I mean, they never really like, usually if you're in like a coma or something, like, you usually come back.

Liz:

Okay, that's true.

Liz:

Usually you're coming.

Diana:

Boys don't know.

Diana:

Because the kind of accident her.

Diana:

Her face was very.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

But maybe her brain worry about a head injury.

Liz:

I mean, but unless like, brain parts of the brain were actually missing.

Diana:

But that's true.

Liz:

How much is a brain does a werewolf need?

Diana:

I just don't.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

I just don't know.

Diana:

And I.

Diana:

It was just a question that crossed my mind because she made the comment about wouldn't be normal.

Diana:

And I'm like, well, did you?

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

Anyways, it doesn't matter.

Diana:

Like you said, it's the question that comes up in all of the vampire and anything.

Diana:

You're transforming and healing stories.

Diana:

So, anyways, so she.

Diana:

They ran away to the woods.

Diana:

That's after she heals her sister, tells her what's going on, and there we go.

Diana:

And then she thought things were going good until she found her sister eating a dude.

Diana:

And she was very upset about it.

Liz:

And put a sock in a door or something.

Liz:

But, yeah, she just walks in and there's just, like, blood everywhere.

Liz:

And she's just going to town.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And she's like, look, you know, I'll.

Diana:

Let me.

Diana:

Just let me.

Diana:

You know, I.

Diana:

I want to.

Diana:

A chance to make it right, and I'll take care.

Diana:

If not, I'll take care of it.

Diana:

Which is like, I did Brian.

Liz:

Parallel.

Diana:

Yeah, but the interesting parallel here, too.

Diana:

I think that this is obviously intentional by the writers as well, is the parallel of Tasha and Kate with Sam and Dean.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

Right.

Diana:

Sister siblings that are close and willing to do anything for each other and going through these trials together, whatever they may be.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

And not giving the others choices and a whole bunch of other salmon.

Diana:

Weird.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So Dean's like, well, guess what.

Diana:

We've got big news.

Diana:

We have a werewolf cure.

Diana:

We're gonna cure you both.

Diana:

You just need to get her.

Diana:

And Kate's like, yay, let's go.

Diana:

Instead of being like, wait, what?

Diana:

I don't believe you.

Diana:

Which is what she should have said, but I guess it's good she didn't.

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

So outside, Sam's like, by the way, Dean, what the are you doing?

Diana:

We don't have a cure.

Diana:

And Dean's like, no, but we kill monsters.

Diana:

And Sam is.

Liz:

Then for the:

Diana:

Well, and then they've already agreed that Kate wasn't a monster.

Diana:

So now it's even more confusing, I'd say.

Diana:

But either way.

Diana:

And Sam's like, well, they're siblings.

Diana:

They're looking out for each other.

Diana:

They're just like us.

Diana:

And Dean's like, well, that's worked wonders for us.

Diana:

Like, oh, that's harsh.

Liz:

But anyway, so Sam literally just saved demon Dean.

Liz:

Like, he just.

Liz:

Who was just doing as bad of things, if not worse than what Tasha was doing.

Diana:

And Sam's like, you can't make our drama.

Diana:

Those girls as drama.

Liz:

Just.

Diana:

You can't make.

Diana:

Don't.

Diana:

Let's not totally make this the same thing.

Diana:

And so he wants.

Diana:

Dean wants to know what Sam's plan is then.

Diana:

So Sam, Dean and Kate, with her taking a nap, are driving.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And while she's asleep, Sam decides to tell Dean more about his escapades.

Diana:

While Dean was a demon, he's like, yeah, there wasn't just luster, and it wasn't just humans.

Diana:

And, you know, maybe I punched some hunters along the way, but I literally watched you die.

Diana:

I carried your dead body, put your corpse in a bed.

Diana:

And then.

Diana:

And then Dean's like, it's embarrassing.

Diana:

The note was embarrassing.

Diana:

Crowley, everything.

Diana:

It was all embarrassing.

Diana:

So Dean's embarrassed by what happened.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

I mean.

Liz:

I mean, you should feel within the Winchester family, becoming a demon would be a shame.

Liz:

Little thing.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So I'm just intrigued that embarrassment is the word that he used.

Diana:

So.

Diana:

Yeah, that's good.

Diana:

Anyways.

Diana:

But indeed, Sam.

Diana:

So they have an interesting exchange about this.

Diana:

And Dean's like, I never even said thank you.

Diana:

And Sam's like, but you don't have to say that to me.

Diana:

And he's like, you know, just.

Diana:

We just needed this.

Diana:

R R.

Diana:

We're back at it.

Diana:

It's fine.

Diana:

But he doesn't want to talk about this anymore.

Diana:

Dean has had enough feelings talk.

Diana:

So he wakes up Kate because he's.

Diana:

That's avoidance.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

But it's fine.

Diana:

So they took the cabin that Kate and her family went to as kids because this was their rendezvous spot, established by her and her sister if they ever got into trouble.

Diana:

And Kate's like, let me go in first.

Diana:

And Dean's like, cool, cool.

Diana:

Sure thing.

Diana:

And handcuffs her to the steering wheel.

Diana:

Because, of course that's what he's gonna do.

Liz:

I think at this point, the need to have something in baby just to handcuff people, too, because the steering wheel is just too easy to take off.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Even then, there's, like.

Diana:

You could easily, easily weld, like, a little, like, a metal loop, like, onto, like, the.

Diana:

The floor of the car or.

Diana:

Or along the door without causing major damage, I think.

Liz:

So it just makes sense.

Liz:

But anyhow, so Kate wants to save Tasha, but Dean's just like, you're in too deep.

Liz:

You just can't come back ever.

Liz:

Which is like.

Liz:

Oh, why do you say that, Dean?

Liz:

That's a weird, very specific thing for you to say.

Diana:

It is.

Diana:

It is.

Diana:

So Sam and Dean go towards the cabin, and I see all the Cute family photos inside.

Diana:

And Sam finds Tasha sitting on a bed holding a doll.

Diana:

And she can't believe that her own sister betrayed her.

Diana:

Sam's like, well, she didn't.

Diana:

And she's like.

Diana:

And Tosh's like, you're not gonna shoot me.

Diana:

Because some other rando dude out of nowhere has Dean held up with a gun.

Liz:

Yep.

Diana:

Who the is this guy?

Liz:

I don't know.

Liz:

So there's this guy, and then he gets Dean gets pistol whipped with it.

Diana:

Yeah, he does.

Diana:

Oh, and then there's another dude and he brings Kaden.

Diana:

So now we got two randos.

Diana:

Apparently this is Brandon and Travis.

Diana:

Tasha has created their new family.

Diana:

So she has turned these two dudes that Dean refers to as the Psycho Brady Bunch.

Diana:

And we get a mini fight, but not much of one.

Diana:

And Tasha's choking out Sam.

Diana:

Kate wants to talk.

Diana:

Tasha's pissed.

Diana:

And Dean's on the floor.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And she gives Kate basically the choice of joining the pack or eating Sam's heart.

Liz:

And then she.

Liz:

Tasha calls Sam Paul Bunyan.

Liz:

And it's funny, she does call him Paul Bunyan.

Diana:

I noticed that.

Diana:

And Kate's like, nah.

Diana:

And so Tasha's like, oh, just take.

Diana:

Take them and have fun.

Diana:

I want a heart to go in a doggy bag.

Diana:

Because of course she does.

Diana:

But Kate's like, no, I want to help you.

Diana:

I want to show you that things can be, you know, and all this.

Diana:

And Tasha's like, no, I'm smarter.

Diana:

I'm better.

Diana:

I'm awesome.

Diana:

I'm a superhero.

Diana:

She likes being a werewolf.

Diana:

She's a goodness.

Diana:

She likes being a werewolf.

Diana:

And Kate's like, but you're killing innocent people.

Diana:

And Tasha's like, I was in it weak and scared all my life.

Diana:

Everybody walked all over me.

Diana:

And now I'm scary.

Liz:

But now I'm not.

Liz:

I'm not scared.

Liz:

I'm scary.

Liz:

Like, that's a real.

Liz:

That should be in like a.

Liz:

Like on a.

Liz:

Like on a wall thing somewhere that live, laugh, love.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

Not scared.

Diana:

I'm scary.

Diana:

But she's like, we can go do whatever we want together.

Diana:

And in the meantime, we've got Sam and Dean are talking these werewolf dudes.

Diana:

And then Sam manages to stab them both because Dean, like, couldn't stab one.

Diana:

It was real weird.

Liz:

Yeah, but it was very quick.

Liz:

Quick silver stabs.

Diana:

They were.

Diana:

Well, Tasha's like, no, Kate, you gotta come with me.

Diana:

And Kate's like, I love you.

Diana:

Tasha's like, I love you too.

Diana:

And they hug.

Diana:

But Kate stabs her sister.

Diana:

Oh, my God.

Liz:

With her suicide knife.

Liz:

And in closed captionings, it said, squish.

Diana:

Oh, no.

Liz:

She squished her with her knife.

Diana:

Oh, no.

Liz:

It did make a squish sound.

Diana:

It did.

Diana:

Anyway.

Diana:

And so Tasha's dead, and Sam and Dean bust in, and they find Tasha dead on the floor, the window open, and Kate gone.

Diana:

Because Kate's a smart girl.

Liz:

She's not sticking around.

Diana:

Nope.

Diana:

So Sam and Dean get back on the road, and they're like, are we gonna go after her?

Diana:

And they're like, well, Sam's like, you know, we agreed that a case is a good idea, but maybe we jump in a little too fast.

Diana:

You've still got the mark.

Diana:

We still need to talk about things.

Diana:

And Dean's like, no, I.

Diana:

I needed to get back in the saddle.

Diana:

I need to do something good.

Diana:

I needed.

Diana:

Not doing all this.

Diana:

I don't care if I'm not ready.

Diana:

And Kate calls from a pay phone, just Sam thanks her.

Diana:

And she's like, whatever.

Diana:

That wasn't.

Diana:

That wasn't how my sister was.

Diana:

And I hope I don't see you.

Diana:

And she has both of her sister.

Diana:

Both the bracelets now.

Liz:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Diana:

And then Dean's like, maybe you're right.

Diana:

Maybe I'm not ready to hunt.

Diana:

I'm just trying to do the right thing.

Diana:

Sick of doing the wrong one.

Liz:

He is so.

Liz:

I mean, at least it sounds like he's on a positive.

Diana:

It does.

Liz:

So even though he said something very different earlier.

Liz:

So do we have cast people to talk about?

Diana:

We do.

Diana:

So our cast this week.

Diana:

Obviously, we've talked about Kate before, so I'm not gonna.

Speaker C:

Casting couch is the casting couch.

Speaker C:

Were they on that show that time with that guy?

Diana:

Hey.

Diana:

La, la, la la la la la.

Liz:

La la, la, la, la.

Liz:

Well, I will say.

Liz:

Well, okay, so I was gonna say this at the end, but since you said that now.

Liz:

So this is from the wiki.

Liz:

So they said during the 200th episode.

Liz:

Because they just finished the 200th episode around when this came out.

Liz:

Red carpet interviews with the cast and producers.

Liz:

A Supernatural.

Liz:

We chatted briefly with Adam Glass, the writer of this episode, about Kate.

Liz:

What's really awesome is I remember Robbie, who wrote Kate and Bitten, was always joking like, no one watched that episode.

Liz:

No one likes her.

Liz:

And then the fans have gone nuts that she's coming back.

Liz:

It's something that I've been asking since last season.

Liz:

What happened to Kate?

Liz:

She walks off like Bill Bixby in the Incredible Hulk.

Liz:

And we're like, what's her story?

Liz:

So we had to catch up with her and see what she's been up to and just pulls us into a case.

Liz:

So it'll be really fun to see her again.

Liz:

And the actress who plays her just did an amazing job and we're excited, excited, excited for that episode.

Liz:

Episode.

Diana:

Yay.

Diana:

That's fun.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So Tasha, her sister, was played by Emily Tennant.

Diana:

She's in a couple episodes.

Liz:

And Adam Glass named her after his sister, his name Joshua.

Diana:

Oh, that's cool.

Diana:

She's been in episodes of shows like Once Upon a Time, Charmed, Supergirl, Riverdale.

Diana:

She was young Daphne in the:

Diana:

She was a young girl in iRobot.

Diana:

She was young Krista in Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.

Diana:

She was the pretty to goth girl in Juno.

Diana:

And in a series called Cedar Cove is a character named Cecilia.

Diana:

She's also does a.

Diana:

A lot of voice work.

Diana:

Specifically, she is the voice of Polly Pocket in the Polly Pocket cartoons, like hundreds of episodes.

Diana:

And then also has done some voice work with My Little Pony cartoons.

Diana:

And she's been in quite a few Hallmark Christmas movies.

Diana:

So Barker, just because I think it was amused by this.

Diana:

Barker is played by Christoph Lundgren.

Diana:

He's been episodes of the Flash and Continuum.

Diana:

I just think it's funny that he's like a biker in this and then his characters in those have been like Barker the biker.

Diana:

And then we've got he's a tweaker in the Flash and a drug dealer in Continuum as just like.

Liz:

I bet he's sober too.

Diana:

I.

Diana:

You know, that's how it always goes, right?

Diana:

That's how it always goes.

Diana:

Tommy is played by Primo Allen, who's in a couple episodes of Supernatural as well.

Diana:

He's also been in episodes of Fringe, Once Upon a Time, Arrow, Bates Motel, Wayward Pines, Eye Zombie, Magicians, Prison Break, Nancy Drew, Charmed, and Last of Us.

Diana:

He's also the punker in the film if I say Day, Victor in A Dog's Purpose and Sam in Fifty Shades freed our officer.

Diana:

So our sheriff is Daniel Martin and you may have seen him in episodes of Fringe, Arrow, I, Zombie, a couple episodes of Magicians and on Riverdale.

Liz:

Cool.

Diana:

Cool.

Diana:

So, yeah, it's not a huge cast this time, but some.

Liz:

Well, I mean, it was.

Liz:

Yeah, we.

Liz:

We brought someone back and we had some.

Liz:

Yeah, some core things.

Liz:

So, yes, it wasn't a big ensemble episode, but there was still a lot of things that happened.

Diana:

For real.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And so I think, you know, as I pointed out that Dean very suspiciously said you know, you can't basically that.

Liz:

You can't just.

Liz:

Once you go into the darkness, you can't leave it behind.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

And.

Liz:

But yet, then he seems so upbeat at the end.

Diana:

Right?

Diana:

So, like, oh, I.

Diana:

I want to do something good.

Diana:

The right thing.

Diana:

Is that the wrong thing?

Liz:

So I don't know.

Diana:

Mixed.

Diana:

Mixed messages, sir.

Liz:

It's so mixed messages.

Diana:

I.

Liz:

So we don't.

Liz:

We don't know if they're okay?

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

No.

Liz:

They talked about fighting.

Diana:

No.

Diana:

And I found it interesting.

Diana:

They talked about if they were okay a lot in this episode.

Diana:

I mean, for them.

Diana:

Well, we got three conversations about if they were okay or not.

Diana:

Pretty.

Diana:

Pretty substantial for Sam and Dean.

Diana:

We also got.

Diana:

I thought that.

Diana:

I really thought it was really cleverly well done to have the parallel with the siblings.

Diana:

And also doing it a callback episode.

Diana:

Well done.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Smart.

Diana:

Well done, writers.

Diana:

Tasha was irritating.

Liz:

She is.

Liz:

But see, also, I think Kate's irritating.

Diana:

Too, because it is kind of irritating.

Diana:

She's kind of annoying.

Diana:

I know it's because she just reminds.

Liz:

Me of Meg, I think, of the original magic, but I could see that.

Diana:

You know what's really funny?

Diana:

So you sent me a picture today.

Liz:

Oh, yeah.

Diana:

And it was just when it was a thumbnail before I could open it, and it's, like, away, like, in my peripheral vision.

Diana:

I'm like, when did I wear that baseball tee?

Diana:

Because all I could see was, like, short blonde hair and a baseball tee.

Diana:

And I'm like, I don't have a blue baseball tee.

Diana:

That's really weird.

Diana:

And I opened it.

Diana:

I'm like, oh, that's definitely not me.

Liz:

That's Kate from Supernatural.

Liz:

Not me.

Diana:

But, like, you know, I was like, well, you never know.

Diana:

I mean, like, sometimes find the random people, you know, I was just like.

Diana:

I was like, oh, that's right.

Diana:

That's a weird moment to have.

Liz:

It's funny.

Diana:

Nothing.

Diana:

It was just funny.

Diana:

It was just short blonde hair, but.

Liz:

Anything else?

Diana:

No, I think I'm excited to see where it's gonna go from here.

Liz:

I'm excited for next week's.

Liz:

Next week's episode is a doozy.

Liz:

I'm very excited about next week.

Diana:

Am I gonna.

Diana:

Can I make a guess?

Diana:

What are we going to see our new character that we got a peek at last week.

Liz:

No.

Diana:

No.

Liz:

What the.

Liz:

Hey, I.

Liz:

I will.

Liz:

Devil is Trap podcast.

Liz:

I will give you.

Liz:

Is.

Diana:

Don't get it.

Liz:

It'll make you want to break out.

Speaker C:

Double Strap podcast is part of the Ship It Studio podcast network.

Speaker C:

Thanks for.

Speaker C:

For listening to this week's.

Speaker C:

Episode of Devil's Trap podcast.

Speaker C:

You can follow us on Instagram @doublestrap podcast Twitter, or you can email us@devilstrapevilstrappodcast.com don't forget to subscribe, leave reviews and share with all your friends.

Speaker C:

We're at all your favorite podcast outlets and at devils Trapp podcast.com I'm Babe.

Speaker C:

Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.

Diana:

Going up to the spirit in the sky that's where I'm gonna go when I die When I die and they lay me I'm gonna go to the place that.

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About the Podcast

Devil's Trap: A Supernatural Podcast
A Supernatural fan show where longtime fan Liz “trapped” Diana, into watching for the first time. Come along for a spoiler free watch with crafty urban fantasy enthusiasts.
We're going back to the beginning of the road and watching Supernatural from the beginning. For your host Liz, it's probably her fifth time through. For your other host Diana, it's her first. She claims she was scared. Naturally as a supportive friend, Liz will attempt to exploit this fear as much as possible. We also dive into the spooky spook in the show in whatever way we want - occult, folklore, true crime, shopping, GAME SHOWS?

Watch the videos on you tube @devilstrappodcast
Follow us on Twitter at @DevilsTrapPod
Follow us on Instagram at @DevilsTrapPodcast

About your hosts

Elizabeth Waddell

Profile picture for Elizabeth Waddell
Liz, the maker of the Lore is a ne'er-do-well Texan, you can find her in the spooky places.

Diana Cox

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Diana is watching Supernatural for the first time and loving every minute. Diana lives in Dallas, TX and spends her time seeing/making music, going to car shows, drinking, and caring for 2 large dogs (+ the husband/Babe).