12:10 Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets
It's Season 10 Episode 12, and while we don't have any, Lily Sunder has some regrets. Liz tells Diana more about the lore behind Nephilim and the Cardix Giant Hoax.
Research Links
- THE CARDIFF GIANT HOAX on JSTOR
- The Cardiff Giant – “A Sucker Born Every Minute” – Legends of America
- The Cardiff Giant: The Biggest Hoax of the 19th Century - JSTOR Daily
- Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries : Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology : Feder, Kenneth L., author : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
- Cardiff Giant - Wikipedia
- Nephilim - Wikipedia
- The Encyclopedia Of Demons And Demonology By Guiley Rosemary Ellen : motivator8 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Transcript
On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast, if you lose your jelly beans and G strings, then drink and hope.
Speaker B:You find a better way.
Speaker B:Let's do this.
Speaker A:Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Diana.
Speaker B:And I'm Liz.
Speaker A:And we're going to talk about season 12, episode 10.
Speaker A:Lily Sunder has some regrets.
Speaker B:No regrets.
Speaker B:No regrets at all.
Speaker A:Well, Liz, what have you been up to?
Speaker B:Say something fascinating, Liz.
Speaker B:Say something fascinating.
Speaker B:Nothing.
Speaker B:Just, you know, I. I hung upside down by my feet last night on fabric, which was hard.
Speaker B:I also found it that I hung upside down by my feet on hoop and.
Speaker B:Yeah, from a lot of things.
Speaker B:I was hanging by my feet last night and so my feet are kind of bruised on top of.
Speaker B:But they kind of have a permanent bruise on them right now.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That's about as exciting.
Speaker B:I'm learning to.
Speaker B:What's that word?
Speaker B:So ambidextrous is using both hands and pre.
Speaker B:Prehensile when you're learning how to use your feet for different things.
Speaker A:How do you know about a prehensile tail?
Speaker A:I don't know about prehensile.
Speaker B:Oh, I wish I had a prehensile tail.
Speaker B:I've always.
Speaker B:I'm so.
Speaker B:Man, if I could grow a tail, I'd be so happy.
Speaker A:That's the body mod you'd go for?
Speaker B:That is a body mod I would go for.
Speaker B:Not in a furry way, I don't think.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know what kind of tail I would grow.
Speaker A:That's a tough one.
Speaker B:That's a tough one to think about.
Speaker B:There's so many different options you could go with.
Speaker A:There really are.
Speaker B:But then you have to do, like, do you keep it inside your pants or do you, like, have a hole?
Speaker A:That is the question.
Speaker B:So what have you been up to?
Speaker B:Are you cutting holes in your pants for your tail?
Speaker A:I have not been doing that, but I did.
Speaker A:I went to a minor league hockey game and that was pretty fun.
Speaker A:And they had little tiny Brahmas that you throw at them because the team is the Brahmas.
Speaker A:But they were playing.
Speaker A:It was the Lone Star Brahmas in their Tarrant county, but they were playing against the Odessa Jackalopes.
Speaker A:And it really made me sad to root against the Jackalopes because I was rooting for the home team.
Speaker B:Did the Jackalopes have merch?
Speaker A:I did not see their merch.
Speaker A:I checked.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But promise had good.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I wouldn't throw the jackalopes.
Speaker B:I would keep those.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We should travel up to one of their games.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker B:No, I don't want to go to it.
Speaker B:I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:No way.
Speaker B:I'm going to.
Speaker B:But I do have a friend who lives there, so I can have them go to the game.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Search for merch.
Speaker A:Yeah, so.
Speaker A:And then we just had some family stuff, so.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess that's.
Speaker A:I feel like there's something else in the mix there.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I've been to Chili's, and I went to a. Dave and Busters in.
Speaker A:I went to Chili's.
Speaker A:I went to Dave and Buster's in Houston.
Speaker A:I've been.
Speaker A:Oh, I went to a bowling alley in Dallas.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I've been all over the place.
Speaker A:I've been a busy little bee.
Speaker A:Though, granted, I could not bowl because of my knee surgery and I did not play a lot of video games because there was a flight of stairs between me and them.
Speaker B:Yeah, that'll do it.
Speaker A:So either way, I am getting better.
Speaker A:But, yeah, not there yet.
Speaker B:So you're on the mend.
Speaker B:Which is great.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:You can regenerate and regrow yourself.
Speaker A:Something like that.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, Liz and I were discussing that there is no news in Supernatural World to share with you this week.
Speaker A:It is a very quiet place.
Speaker B:So quiet.
Speaker B:I mean, it's the.
Speaker B:My news alerts are repeating the same stories and sometimes it brings up things that I didn't know, like there's going to be a boys video game.
Speaker B:So I learned that.
Speaker B:But that was news like 16 weeks ago.
Speaker B:Like, it was like digging through things like, what can I find about Jensen Ackles?
Speaker B:But I mean, conventions are still going, so those things are happening.
Speaker B:So go see them.
Speaker B:Still.
Speaker B:Jared will show up when his leg heals.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Come on, paddle.
Speaker B:I'm so.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna keep, like, just gonna keep trolling him until he comes on.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Anyways, someday we'll find out why he broke his leg.
Speaker B:Someday.
Speaker A:Someday.
Speaker B:Or we'll have new.
Speaker B:More news of the new episodes.
Speaker B:The voice will come out and we'll have that to talk about.
Speaker B:That will happen some.
Speaker B: Sometime in: Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:All right, well, let's talk about Supernatural and this one.
Speaker B:Lily Sunder has some regrets, which is titled that because that's why they.
Speaker B:It's what happened to the show and they didn't.
Speaker B:There wasn't a smart reason for it.
Speaker B:That's just it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B: -: Speaker B:It was directed by Thomas J. Wright, who this season did Mamma Mia.
Speaker B:And last season we saw the dude Devil in the details and all of the family.
Speaker B:It was written by Steve Yi.
Speaker B:And the season we saw him doing celebrating the life of Asa Fox that.
Speaker B:That banger of an episode that has traumatized us all.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so we start off with our recap.
Speaker B:And we get the very first time that we met Cass, which is just like, oh, look at little baby Misha.
Speaker B:He was so young in his little coat.
Speaker B:The first time you put it on is adorable.
Speaker B:And Cass is telling us how angels.
Speaker B:Angels are dicks.
Speaker B:And then they go.
Speaker B:Then we go to POTUS and Nephilim, Kelly Klein, the pact with Billy.
Speaker B:Then breaking the pact and consequences, and we'll have poor Billy getting stabbed.
Speaker B:And then we go to something that is very popular in Mideast cities, and that is an arcade bar.
Speaker B:And this bar is actually called Megabyte.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:And there's more and more of those around right now, too.
Speaker A:They're pretty popular, too, here.
Speaker A:There's a few in Dallas here.
Speaker A:I know, but yeah.
Speaker A:So we've got a chick playing rampage.
Speaker A:So it's like vintage video games, too.
Speaker A:So it's super fun.
Speaker A:And apparently the bartender's like, we're closing.
Speaker A:And apparently she beats the game every night.
Speaker A:And so she.
Speaker A:The bartender's like, I'm gonna take the trash out.
Speaker A:And then I'm unplugging.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:And so while the bartender's gone, a redhead chick with an eye patch appears and tells the.
Speaker A:The chick that's playing the video game that you're too old for video games.
Speaker A:And they exchanged some real snarky words back and forth.
Speaker A:It's just real weird.
Speaker A:It's like someone, like, you're playing a video game.
Speaker A:You're in zone.
Speaker A:You good beach game.
Speaker A:And someone comes up and they're like, you're too old for video games.
Speaker A:And they have this.
Speaker A:Nah.
Speaker A:Like, exchange.
Speaker A:And then they get in a big fight.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And the player apparently tries some hand flinging.
Speaker B:And we learn their name is.
Speaker B:Is Benjamin.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that they have an Angel Blade.
Speaker B:But what's better than one Angel Blade?
Speaker B:Two Angel Blades.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:This eye patch, as I call her, has two angel blades.
Speaker A:Benjamin has one.
Speaker A:And we get a big fight.
Speaker A:And eye patch pins Benjamin.
Speaker A:And anyways, and so Benjamin's doing, like, this incantation and.
Speaker A:And like, basically, apparently the lights are flickering and Eyepatch is really, really happy because this means that they are calling their angel friends.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, so they're.
Speaker B:They're speaking in.
Speaker B:Okie.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:And the people we're seeing, the different people that they're calling.
Speaker B:And that includes Castiel and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then eye patch stabs Benjamin and walks away and doesn't bother to pick up the Angel Blades that are on the floor.
Speaker A:Super weird, right?
Speaker B:And I know it comes back later.
Speaker B:And then I'm like, okay.
Speaker B:I guess that's kind of why they did it.
Speaker B:But I don't know.
Speaker B:I have a thing about the Angel Blades in this.
Speaker B:This episode.
Speaker A:That's weird, right?
Speaker B:I just kind of got fixated on them.
Speaker B:So we go from there to the bunker, and we see the murder board is just covered with Kelly.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So Sam and Dean have.
Speaker A:Are looking at this because Castiel has built this murder board.
Speaker B:Way to go, Cass.
Speaker B:He's doing crafts.
Speaker A:Look at him.
Speaker A:And they're discussing, though, that she's just dropped off the map.
Speaker A:And that kind of Cass hasn't been able to find her.
Speaker A:So then the conversation pivots really quickly over to Mary, and Dean's like, oh, yeah, she called.
Speaker A:She's after a shapeshifter in Atlanta, but she doesn't want our help.
Speaker A:She's got it.
Speaker A:He's all irritated, and she jumped back in too soon.
Speaker A:And Sam's like, I'm not really worried about our mom.
Speaker A:I'm sure she's fine.
Speaker A:But have you talked to Cass?
Speaker A:Because this is getting awkward about the whole thing with Billy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So apparently Dean and Cass are as in the bunker, and they're just doing.
Speaker B:Giving each other the silent treatment.
Speaker B:And it's really awkward.
Speaker B:And nobody likes living in the same place and not being able to talk to somebody.
Speaker B:It's just so much fun.
Speaker B:So Dean's just like, look, man, I am afraid of the cosmic consequences, which will not be a Dean Winchester classic quote of jelly beans and G strings.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, Cass overhears all this, and he comes in and he's like, I know.
Speaker A:I was doing the right thing.
Speaker A:I'm sure of it.
Speaker A:And by the way, I'm leaving, not because I have a lead on Kelly.
Speaker A:I've got an angel friend that called for help.
Speaker A:So Dean's like, well, oh, angel.
Speaker A:Angel radio.
Speaker A:And Cass like, no, actually, it's a specific friend call.
Speaker A:And they were begging for help, and then they went silent.
Speaker A:So I need to find out if they're still alive.
Speaker A:Sam's kind of like, oh, do you.
Speaker A:Do you want us to come with you?
Speaker A:Please?
Speaker A:So they end up all going, even though Dean's not Super thrilled.
Speaker A:But he says they're gonna go to make sure that cast doesn't do anything else stupid.
Speaker B:So they get into Baby, and Sam is calling out the Awkward.
Speaker B:And he tries to get music, but he gets shot down by Dean.
Speaker B:And Sam asks Cass is, you know, is like, is there any.
Speaker B:He says, you know what?
Speaker B:I'm just going to change the subject and we're just going to talk about our mission.
Speaker B:So is there anything that I should know about what we're walking into?
Speaker B:And again, Cass is giving the silent treatment and Sam's just like, the silence treatment is stupid and we need a plan.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So finally he's like, what do y' all want to know?
Speaker A:Benjamin wouldn't call for help lightly.
Speaker A:And they also aren't the type that would put themselves in harm's way.
Speaker A:And Dean's like, now we're going to get sarcastic.
Speaker A:Because Dean's going to, oh, how nice that is.
Speaker A:How that must be.
Speaker A:And so thoughtful not to make knee jerk decisions like that.
Speaker A:And Cass gets freaking snarky back about, oh, you're being real sarcastic.
Speaker A:And, you know, Benjamin, sarcasm is better.
Speaker A:And anyway, so it's just a lot.
Speaker B:It's a lot.
Speaker B:But, you know, he's giving us some different sides of Benjamin.
Speaker B:And we also get to learn that Benjamin's vessel was very special vessel and was powerful and devout and was really such like an important kind of vessel that Benjamin would have been really, really careful with it and not just let anything happen to it.
Speaker B:Which is at this point, I'm like, y' all should call this episode all about the Benjamins.
Speaker B:And you really.
Speaker B:You lost that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You missed out.
Speaker B:So we go from there back to a.
Speaker B:We go to a motel and there is Eyepatch and she's laying on a bed and she's chanting in Enochian.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we see like a table with witchy stuff and angel blades and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then we cut away.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Let me go back to.
Speaker B:I just want to call it Barcade, because that's what all of them are called for the most part.
Speaker B:So we go to Barcade, even though.
Speaker B:Even though Megabyte is a.
Speaker B:Is a good name.
Speaker B:It is a good name, but.
Speaker B:And once, you know, I hate.
Speaker A:Especially if they have food.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker B:And I can't help it that I get happy every time an angel dies and their wings are on the ground because I think it's cool and pretty.
Speaker B:And his Cass is sad because that means his friend is dead.
Speaker B:But I'm like, look at the sad.
Speaker A:Wings the sad, pretty wings.
Speaker A:They are so Sam's.
Speaker B:But I also don't understand how they have wings when they die if they don't have wings.
Speaker B:Because they brought up in this episode that they don't have.
Speaker B:So how do they have wings with.
Speaker B:Damn it.
Speaker B:This episode really drives me nuts.
Speaker B:Okay, go on.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:Maybe it's from their grace.
Speaker A:Is it Grace wings?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:Well, it's not.
Speaker B:You're wrestling.
Speaker B:It's not right.
Speaker A:The canon doesn't make sense.
Speaker B:Follow the lines, man.
Speaker B:Follow the lines.
Speaker B:Anyways, so yeah, so the rulebook and.
Speaker A:All the writers should be following the same rule book.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So the bartender thinks like this is maybe a cold thing.
Speaker B:And Cass has just had enough.
Speaker B:Get out.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's over it.
Speaker A:He's over it.
Speaker A:Because this is not.
Speaker A:Obviously not just a regular old stabbing.
Speaker A:And so Cass tells Sam and Dean that like, Benjamin was a really good soldier.
Speaker A:So this is extra shocking.
Speaker A:And this is when Dean locates an angel blade under the table.
Speaker A:Angel.
Speaker A:Angel action.
Speaker A:Because it's not Benjamin's blade.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So it's clearly.
Speaker B:So this is eye patches blade.
Speaker B:But so did she just collect them?
Speaker B:Because she seemed to have more than one in that motel.
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker A:She seemed to have a stack.
Speaker B:Or maybe she's just collecting them from the ones that she's.
Speaker B:She's killed.
Speaker B:But then he was okay.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:It's confusing.
Speaker B:I wish they just had their names on them or something.
Speaker B:And then I could like.
Speaker B:They just like scratch that.
Speaker B:This belongs to.
Speaker B:And then I can figure this out a little bit better.
Speaker A:Just have a serial number and then like code them.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:An rfid, you know, scanner.
Speaker B:And I'll just go by.
Speaker B:We'll find out who owns it or light up like a lightsaber or something.
Speaker B:Anyway, so he does.
Speaker B:Cass is going to do some mind stuff.
Speaker B:And that gets eye patches attention, I guess.
Speaker A:Or he.
Speaker A:I thought he hears her chanting.
Speaker A:I thought he heard her incantation.
Speaker A:Because she killed this one knowing they were calling friends.
Speaker A:And now she's just putting the call out to see if she can catch another one.
Speaker A:That's what I thought happened.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Because I don't speak Enochian and they didn't translate it.
Speaker B:So I don't know what the big could be like.
Speaker B:They could be giving us a recipe for banana pudding.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:I mean, that would be great, right?
Speaker B:It would be nice.
Speaker A:I had banana pudding last week.
Speaker A:It was really good.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Eyepatches set up and says Cass's name.
Speaker B:And Cass is like, whoops, gotta go, Gotta go.
Speaker B:And then eye patch is like, I have a picture of a Victoria ghost child and I'm gonna kiss it.
Speaker B:And then we're gonna go.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So Sam and Dean and Castiel are going to go meet Isham, who is.
Speaker A:He was in the same battalion with Benjamin and Castiel, but he does not.
Speaker B:Like humans and he was the boss of them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And he does not like humans.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And he asked Castiel to come alone.
Speaker B:Which is also just never a good sign.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, don't bring your friends.
Speaker B:Like, I only.
Speaker B:I don't like that if you're a good guy.
Speaker A:Come on now.
Speaker A:That's what bad guys say.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And so when we go in there, we see that he's one of the ones that we were flashing through before for.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And there's a woman with him too.
Speaker A:And he comments.
Speaker A:Castiel observes that these.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:These are the same vessels they've had for a very long time.
Speaker A:And she makes the woman.
Speaker A:We find out later, her name is Mirabel.
Speaker A:I'm gonna go for it now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Makes a snarky comment about not having their wings.
Speaker A:And it's harder to get places.
Speaker A:And basically everything's snark against Cass.
Speaker A:This whole conversation.
Speaker A:Maribel and Isham don't like Cass.
Speaker B:No angels like Cass.
Speaker B:That's just a general thing because he's done a lot of stuff to them.
Speaker B:He's not a great.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But this was.
Speaker B:This was the.
Speaker B:Because there's also another Benjamin that was mentioned in another episode that was a different Benjamin that was in a unit with.
Speaker B:Apparently there was even more than one Benjamin.
Speaker B:But saying, I know, but so this is Cass's squad.
Speaker B:That was his squad before that squad before.
Speaker B:And so this was his pre apocalypse squad.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:But I also somehow in his timeline.
Speaker B:Because we also find out that the.
Speaker B:You know, Cass had.
Speaker B:We know Cass had another vessel and.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker B:We'll find out what it is later.
Speaker B:Which is great.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:So we find out that Cass had another vessel and also then beyond the snark.
Speaker B:You said that about the wings.
Speaker A:Then.
Speaker A:Isha.
Speaker B:Isham's also like call bringing up that Balthasar and Uriel are both dead too.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The other people that basically it's like, oh, you're.
Speaker A:Yeah, no Cass.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not a hero, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices.
Speaker A:And he's like, yeah.
Speaker A:Sometimes it seems like it's other angels sacrificing themselves for You.
Speaker B:Well, not wrong.
Speaker B:I mean, Cass is the one who's alive.
Speaker B:And the angels are ones that are dead.
Speaker B:Yeah, but.
Speaker B:Because he cannot just wait outside like he's told to, Dean Winchester pulls a Dean and storms it.
Speaker A:I like Sam's Countdown for it, too.
Speaker A:Sam's like, oh, here we go.
Speaker A:Can't help himself.
Speaker A:And they.
Speaker A:What I love also is that Sam and Dean scooch into the booth next to Cass, and it's very crowded.
Speaker A:And it's kind of funny.
Speaker B:It's very crowded because they're all very large men and they're in a very tiny booth.
Speaker B:And it's funny.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:But, yeah, he is not stoked about this.
Speaker A:And of course he knows who Sam and Dean are.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And he's like, maribel, you need to go look outside for others.
Speaker A:And so she goes.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:Which is a stupid.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Anyway, so she goes outside to look for people, following them, and gets to the alley and gets stabbed by eye patch.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not no warning, nothing.
Speaker B:Just a bam.
Speaker B:Like, oh, she just took her out.
Speaker A:So Mirabel's out, Maribel's gone.
Speaker A:And back inside the diner.
Speaker A:Dean's asking about pie.
Speaker A:Because, duh.
Speaker B:I mean, you're in a diner.
Speaker B:What else are you gonna do?
Speaker B:Maybe ask for disco fries.
Speaker A:But it's disco fries, coffee or pie, or all the above.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:There could be an order of those things.
Speaker B:So Isham has a sugar fetish.
Speaker B:And he's just pouring sugar in his coffee all over.
Speaker A:It's pretty funny.
Speaker A:It's like a really.
Speaker A:It's a really good, like, little.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:They don't get to carry it on.
Speaker A:A little, like, character quirk that they get to do real fast here.
Speaker A:I appreciate that.
Speaker A:Anyways, so Isham continues talking to Cass, but now Sam and Dean are there, and.
Speaker A:And after they get called, after he refers to Castiel as his ratty old coat and his pair of poorly trained monkeys, Dean snaps out at him and tells him to go to hell.
Speaker B:She really gets into, like, the primate and monkey calling about humans.
Speaker B:Like, it's really into it, and it's.
Speaker B:It's just not attractive.
Speaker B:Sir.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:And Cass is just trying to calm everybody down because this is about Benjamin, but the Benjamins.
Speaker A:But it seems like we.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker A:But really, we just need to go somewhere more private.
Speaker A:We're going to my safe house.
Speaker A:So he's gonna go look for Mirabel, who he sent out by herself for no good reason to an alley.
Speaker A:And he finds her.
Speaker A:He throws Cash on the table before he does this and tells Dean to order pie.
Speaker A:Dean considers it.
Speaker A:Anyways, Isham.
Speaker A:It goes out to the alley and finds a dead Mirabel.
Speaker A:And then he gets attacked by Eye Patch.
Speaker A:And he fights back and he tries to smite her and cannot.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:His.
Speaker A:His.
Speaker A:It is a failed smiting.
Speaker B:It is a failed.
Speaker B:He cannot smote.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker B:He has this smiting dysfunction.
Speaker B:He has sd.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:And she says that she isn't powerless anymore.
Speaker B:And it feels very female empowering, as she's, like, standing up for herself.
Speaker B:But then Cass is there, and he gets a hit in.
Speaker B:And then we get a flashback kind.
Speaker A:Of to a more westerny time because he recognizes her.
Speaker A:But then we flash away from that really fast.
Speaker A:And so Sam and Dean come around the corner, and Dean pulls a gun.
Speaker A:And she's like, look, I don't want to harm any human.
Speaker A:I just want to finish what I started.
Speaker A:And Dean says, ain't gonna happen, Patches.
Speaker B:So dumb.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:So she raises her hand and she glows.
Speaker B:And then she's like.
Speaker B:And takes off at a convertible.
Speaker A:She does take.
Speaker A:She does.
Speaker A:She glows.
Speaker A:And then she takes off in a white Mustang convertible.
Speaker A:I was very amused.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And by this point, yeah, we're starting to get sort of this Kill Bill reference.
Speaker B:Like, it's partially just because of how she's dressing in, like, the video.
Speaker B:She has no regrets.
Speaker B:And I looked to see if there was any, like, back story, but if there was that just, like, a word, like a costume choice, because they don't really mention it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But she does kind of seem like, with the angel.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:It's a look.
Speaker A:She's committed to a look, but it's kind of sudie.
Speaker A:And some of the angels in heaven were real, Suti.
Speaker A:So maybe it's a nod to that.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I'm not sure.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Okay, well, we'll ponder that some more.
Speaker B:So we go from there to the.
Speaker A:Safe house, which is a church, like, an abandoned church.
Speaker A:And so Castiel really wants to heal Isham's wound.
Speaker A:And then asks Isham how she's still alive.
Speaker A:Sam's like, wait, you know her?
Speaker A:So now we know that Castiel and Isham know this woman that is trying to kill them.
Speaker A:And this is where Castiel's like, oh, you know, before the apocalypse, angels rarely came to Earth.
Speaker A:Except, you know, except, like, once.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:That this was an anomaly.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, more than once.
Speaker B:There's very, like, there are many times, you know, so many angels came to Earth.
Speaker B: to flashback to orino made in: Speaker B:And we see the angels and Cassio is indeed in another vessel and he is a very attractive woman.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then we see Benjamin who is complaining about how wet earth is.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And Isham and Mirabel are there and they're asking why they're there.
Speaker A:And Isham's like, oh, I followed this angel.
Speaker A:There's an.
Speaker A:We are following this angel who took a human wife and they had a.
Speaker B:Daughter and they made a Nephilim and the la.
Speaker B:A couple of episodes ago, I, I said we would get back to Nephilims and so we're going to get back to Nephilims now.
Speaker B:And so it's lore.
Speaker B:So Nephilim, what exactly?
Speaker B:Besides being fun to say they depends on which books you think the of the Bible are real and also how ancient languages are interpreted, which apparently is kind of hard.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But I would argue that the most popular versions of the Nephilim lore is that they are the products product of angels and humans having sex.
Speaker B:And they are one of the reasons that God flooded the earth and Noah had to build an ark.
Speaker B:That's one of the most like popular versions of it.
Speaker B:And the word Nephilim has been translated to fallen, those who have fallen, violent ones, those who attack and giants.
Speaker B:And they are mentioned ambiguously in the Book of Genesis and Numbers.
Speaker B:And according to Wikipedia, a similar identical biblical Hebrew term known as Nephilim by some scholars and the word fallen by others appears in these other books that are in the Deuterocanonical books.
Speaker B:And I really just wanted to say Deuterocanonical, those are a collection of books that are considered to be part of the Old Testament by some churches, including the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Speaker B:We just don't really read about them.
Speaker B:I, I just don't.
Speaker B:I think it's probably because you don't have like, you could print out one Bible and put it like in the pews, but you can't like print out all these extra books.
Speaker B:Like I think the Bible would just be like, you know, 4,000.
Speaker B:But anyway, so there's a whole bunch of books that, you know, a lot of Christian scholars believe tell other stories that we just don't really.
Speaker B:They're not part of the King James Version.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So the Book of Enoch that describes Nephilim as great giants Who Heights were 300 cubits, which is the length of a forearm.
Speaker B:I don't know whose Forearm, but that's what a cubit is.
Speaker B:And so 300 of those was how tall that the Nephilim were.
Speaker B:And these giants consumed the produce of all the people until the people detested feeding them.
Speaker B:So the giants turned against the people in order to eat them.
Speaker B:And then they began to sin against birds, wild beasts, reptiles and fish.
Speaker B:And their flesh was devoured, the one by the other, and they drank blood.
Speaker B:And then the earth brought an accusation against the oppressors.
Speaker B:So that doesn't sound really nice.
Speaker A:No, sounds bad.
Speaker B:In the book of Jubilees that states the idea about God flooding the earth because of them.
Speaker B:And in there they're referred to as evil giants.
Speaker B:There are, however, camps who believe that Nephilim are not the result of angels intermixing with humans, but instead are the descendants of the mixture of the Seth and Cain lines, as the lineage of Seth was called the sons of God because they made a covenant.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the daughters of men were the descendants of Cain or anyone who didn't believe in God.
Speaker A:So a little bit less.
Speaker A:Less.
Speaker B:Less literal, less giant, more.
Speaker B:We're talking about descendants from ancient bloodline.
Speaker A:As opposed to a.
Speaker A:Ancient bloodlines as opposed to evil giants, Right?
Speaker A:Evil giant baby babies.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there are just those who believe the Bible is literal and if it says there were giants and dad Gummet, they were giants.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And these people have always existed.
Speaker B: And in the: Speaker B:That's the hoax of the Cardiff Giant.
Speaker B:Just wanted to expand on some of the Nephilim lore by kind of talking about this thing that happened in.
Speaker B: In the: Speaker B: So in October of: Speaker B:Now, Cardiff is on what has been termed the broad psychic highway.
Speaker B: etch of land which during the: Speaker B:Millerites, the Shakers, the Fox Sisters and all the spiritualists, not to mention Joseph Smith was there finding his tablets and started the Mormon Church.
Speaker B:So like great, the second Great Awakening was there.
Speaker B:So all of these people are having revivals, so they're kind of ramped for some good stuff.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So as these workers are digging for this well, they hit something solid about three feet down.
Speaker B:And what they end up unearthing was what appeared to be a giant petrified man.
Speaker B: Now, because this was the: Speaker B:People began to gather on the farm to get a look and make their opinions known.
Speaker B:Newell erected a tent and charged at first 25 cents, then 50 cents to see the person, to see the.
Speaker B:To see the giant man.
Speaker B:Hundreds came and soon there was a food tent, a care and service and a cider stand.
Speaker B:There was, I hope it was hard cider to you.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Newspaper headlines read, a wonderful discovery, a new wonder.
Speaker B:The petrified Giant.
Speaker B:Guidebooks with the giant's measurements were printed by at least three different authentic, original sources.
Speaker B:Within three weeks they collected over $7,000 in admission fees and over 32,000 people had come to see this giant because it was such a tourist draw.
Speaker B:A group of Syracuse businessmen paid Newell $37,000 for three quarter interest of the giant.
Speaker B:And then they moved it to syracuse, where then 60,000 people came to see it.
Speaker A:P.T.
Speaker B:Barnum came and he offered $50,000 for the giant, but he was turned down.
Speaker B:So he ended up making his own giant and displayed it in New York City at Woods Museum, saying that he had the true giant and the one in Cardiff was a fake.
Speaker B:And then outside of Barnum's exhibit, the signs were like, what is it?
Speaker B:Is it a statue?
Speaker B:Is it a petrification?
Speaker B:Is it a stupendous fraud?
Speaker B:Yes, it's fraud.
Speaker B:So this is also.
Speaker B:This inspired one of the Syracuse investors to be quoted as saying, there's a sucker born every minute.
Speaker B:And that phrase gets attributed to P.T.
Speaker B:barnum.
Speaker B:It was just about him, but.
Speaker B:So that's where that comes from.
Speaker B:So the inventors tried to get in, the investors tried to get an injunction against Barnum, but the court said, bring your giant here and if he swears to his own genuineness as a bonafide petrification, you shall have the injunction you ask for.
Speaker B:So basically saying you can't bring your fake giant here to say that this other giant is a fake, you know.
Speaker B:So the carnage Giant then went on to be displayed in New York, a few blocks away from Barnum's Giant.
Speaker B:And so like a Starbucks, right?
Speaker B:So you can go see a giant at one corner and then go see a giant on another corner.
Speaker A:From Giants on every corner, Giants in every corner.
Speaker B:From there it went to Boston, where Ralph Walder and Emerson came to see it, and he said it was beyond his depth, very wonderful and undoubtedly ancient.
Speaker B:Oliver Wendell Holmes went and saw it and he put a hole in the back of its left ear, which is still there.
Speaker B:And people fought from the beginning that this was a fraud.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Although what kind of fraud it Was, was the debate.
Speaker B:And it's interesting to note that this was a time where people were trying hard to prove the prehistory of America, the idea that other people besides Native Americans had lived on or visited America before the Europeans came.
Speaker B:And this had influenced some of that speculation and.
Speaker B:But the most popular guess was that it was a sculpture.
Speaker B:A science lecturer from Syracuse suggested that French Jesuits carved it to impress the Native Americans.
Speaker B:So in reality, it was a sculpture that was made out of gypsum, a soft stone.
Speaker B: ed to the hoax in December of: Speaker B:So just a couple of months after this was this attack.
Speaker B:And George, who was a hardcore atheist, had gotten into an argument with the fundamentalist named Reverend Turn.
Speaker B:Oh, Turk, sorry.
Speaker B:Who insisted the Bible was literal and that giants must have existed at some point and just refused to give up the idea that giants were real.
Speaker B:And this irritated Hull so much that he lay awake wondering why people would believe such remarkable stories in the Bible about giants.
Speaker B:When I suddenly thought of making a stone giant and passing it off as a petrified man.
Speaker B:People were so bored back then.
Speaker B:So it seems like a lot of work.
Speaker A:I know Internet's for now.
Speaker B:Wait till you see how much money he spends on this too.
Speaker B:So committing to this bit, he bought a 5 ton block of gypsum and he had to keep lying to people about why he needed it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Because he can't say, I'm going to do a hoax and make a petrified man.
Speaker B:So you're like, I'm going to make a statue.
Speaker B:It's a monument and it's also 5 tons.
Speaker B:And so it's so heavy it destroyed wagons and bridges on its way to the railroad.
Speaker B:It was wearing out all the horses.
Speaker B:It finally gets shipped to a sculptor in Chicago who had been sworn to secrecy.
Speaker B:And the sculptor and his assistants proceeded to carve a 10 foot man and the likeness of George Hall.
Speaker B:So they make it look like the guy that is causing the hoax.
Speaker B:And so it's very detailed with nostrils, nails and Adam's apple ribs and a huge veiny penis.
Speaker B:Its left leg twists over the right and some say it looks like he thinks it's holding his stomach in pain, but I really think it looks like it's holding its dick.
Speaker B:So when you look at the picture you'll be like, yeah, I think I know what he's doing here.
Speaker B:So whole applied acid to age the carving and then also use kneading needles across the surface to imitate the look of skin pores.
Speaker B:So basically went across like a million times to make it look like it had pores wild.
Speaker B:Originally he had put hair and beard on it, but he found out that those wouldn't petrify.
Speaker B:So he's like, okay.
Speaker B:So they had to take that off.
Speaker B:So then they had to get the giant because it was in Chicago, right?
Speaker B:So they had, they shipped it to Union via railroad in an iron strap box.
Speaker B:Then they brought it secretly from Union, New York to the Newell farm where it was buried in 18 of 68.
Speaker B:All whisked up Newell's knowledge.
Speaker B:So curious onlookers who did see like because it's a five, like a giant three tons, it's a giant ten foot, you know, man in a box.
Speaker B:Like how the are you hiding?
Speaker A:Look over here.
Speaker B:So they, some people thought it was a tobacco press, some said it was casting, some said it was a soldiers monument.
Speaker B:Most thought it was tobacco, which was contraband at the time.
Speaker B:So that's why they're like, oh look over there.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: So In February of: Speaker A:Old hoaxy as this was the type that's amazing.
Speaker A:Old hoaxy, I like it.
Speaker B:And this is a time of hoaxes and humbugs.
Speaker B:And in Barnum's American Museum he intermingled real and fake objects and would ask the visitors to determine what the genuine things were.
Speaker B:And again, people are really bored and just want to look at stuff.
Speaker B:So even if it's fake, it's like it's a fake giant 10 foot man with a big dick.
Speaker A:And they didn't have the Internet or television.
Speaker B:I mean, what else were you gonna do on your Saturday?
Speaker B:Plow your field?
Speaker B:Like, no, I'm sorry, I'm gonna go look at a giant statue.
Speaker B:So he would, yeah, he would go on to go be exhibited at various fairs and expositions even after everybody knew like this was not a, a petrified man.
Speaker B:But eventually it would end up as a coffee table in an Iowa man's basement before being sold to the Farm Use Museum in Cooperstown, New York where it is to this day.
Speaker B:And the copy is supposedly at a museum in Michigan.
Speaker B:And there's a third copy and I forget where that one's at, but yeah, so people got really into making petrified men.
Speaker B:George Hole tried to make a second one and this one had a monkey's tail, but that one didn't.
Speaker B:That one did not pass muster.
Speaker B:Didn't didn't make the same.
Speaker B:The same splash that the Cardiff Giant did.
Speaker A:That's wild.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Dang.
Speaker B:All right, so that's.
Speaker B:That is Nephilim and the Cardiff Giant.
Speaker A:They talk about how powerful they are, but they don't really talk about them being giants in so far here.
Speaker A:Well, and that's.
Speaker B:No, they don't.
Speaker B:That's one of the things that kind of gets out of this lore is they don't.
Speaker B:I mean, we don't know know.
Speaker B:We haven't really.
Speaker B:We've talked about Nephilim, but we haven't seen one yet.
Speaker A:They hint around it and they just be like, oh, they're powerful.
Speaker B:So, yeah, so they could be giants, but we haven't seen one yet.
Speaker A:So they might be giants.
Speaker B:They might be giants.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:All right, so.
Speaker B:All right, so there.
Speaker B:Now we're.
Speaker B:We're in 19.
Speaker B: We're in just kind of: Speaker B:We're sort of not far from where we just were in time, but.
Speaker B:So everyone's got a lot of hats, they've got a lot of, like, very pretentious clothes on, and they are there to set things right.
Speaker B:And as they're walking up to the house, others join them, too.
Speaker B:So there's more.
Speaker B:More of them showing up.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they've all agreed that this is, you know, dangerous and forbidden and.
Speaker A:And Benjamin's even kind of like, we're here for a kid.
Speaker A:Like, oh, oh, no.
Speaker A:And Cassiel's like, well, they grow up and grow into their power.
Speaker A:It's dangerous, you know?
Speaker A:And Mirabel's like, yeah, world.
Speaker A:Worlds die.
Speaker A:So Isham's like, we are going to set things right.
Speaker A:So Acabel man comes out on the front porch to meet them, and he is joined by Pre Eye Patch.
Speaker A:Eyepatch.
Speaker A:Her name is Lily.
Speaker B:It was like, eye Patch comes out with both.
Speaker B:Both eyes.
Speaker B:What the do I call her now?
Speaker A:Well, we learn around here.
Speaker A:I think we learned.
Speaker A:Start learning.
Speaker A:Her name is Lily Pre Eyepatch.
Speaker A:And they're out on the porch, and he's like, you need to go inside.
Speaker A:And he whispers something to her.
Speaker A:And then Acabel's like, you tells.
Speaker A:That tells the angels.
Speaker A:He's like, you have.
Speaker A:You have no business here.
Speaker A:And we know that he's an angel, right?
Speaker A:And you can tell by his hair.
Speaker A:That's the giveaway.
Speaker A:And it seems like you can't.
Speaker A:You were sent to observe humanity, and you took up with a filthy animal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So he says some nasty things, and Acabel stands up for humans.
Speaker B:And at Cassio, then tells Alcabel that he fathered Nephilim and the penalty is stab death.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker A:Well, what's interesting is, so Casiel does that, and when he says he fathered a Nephilim, you see Acabel go, what?
Speaker A:And then they.
Speaker A:And then Isham stabs him before anything else can happen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So like, just.
Speaker B:Just like death.
Speaker B:And so we get.
Speaker B:No, there's no jury judge.
Speaker B:This is like you just did so.
Speaker B:And Ishaan's like, get rid of the vessel.
Speaker B:And the next part he's gonna do alone.
Speaker B:And then we're all just, like, really distressed about what's happening.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because he goes to the house, and we hear a woman scream.
Speaker A:And then we hear a child scream.
Speaker A:Not good.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Not good.
Speaker A:So back at the abandoned church, Castiel is saying, well, we completed the mission.
Speaker A:It was necessary, and it was right.
Speaker A:And Sam's like, who was the woman?
Speaker A:And there is some explains.
Speaker A:It was Lily Sunder.
Speaker B:And she was a professor of apocalyptic literature.
Speaker B:Yes, please.
Speaker B:Like, where the.
Speaker B:Can I make.
Speaker B:Actually, I.
Speaker B:Since he sp.
Speaker B:As a major at some religious studies.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I want to be a professor.
Speaker B:Apocalyptic literature.
Speaker B:That sounds awesome.
Speaker B:And so she studied angels and she spoke fluent Enochian.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he's like, I took mercy and I let her live, but she made a demonic pact to stay young and Blah.
Speaker A:Okay, so Dean's like, well, let's go.
Speaker A:I'm gonna go find her.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker A:Maybe she's not after me and Sam.
Speaker A:Maybe we can reason with her.
Speaker A:And Cass is like, four dead angels.
Speaker A:Says that she might not be someone to reason with, but we need all of us to fight her.
Speaker A:So maybe that's a bad plan.
Speaker A:I need to heal Isham.
Speaker A:And Sam's like, but you killed her family.
Speaker A:So, like.
Speaker B:Yeah, so what?
Speaker B:Maybe we can reason, but, like, it, you know, different now.
Speaker B:And then Cass is like, what?
Speaker B:So all the angels deserve to die?
Speaker B:Like, what the.
Speaker B:And so Sam's like, okay, let's.
Speaker B:Let's try talking it out.
Speaker B:How about that?
Speaker B:Let's try and talk it out.
Speaker B:And he was like, I don't think we can talk it out anymore.
Speaker B:But, you know, let's just gotta try.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And Cassio's like, it won't work.
Speaker A:She's not gonna quit.
Speaker A:Would you quit?
Speaker A:Sam's like, well, we gotta try.
Speaker A:So they decide they are going to do this.
Speaker A:And we see.
Speaker A:We cut to a scene of Lily healing herself in a mirror because she was cut on the stomach.
Speaker A:And then we cut back to Castiel And Isham.
Speaker A:And Isham is just still talking about Sam and Dean.
Speaker A:About how they're supposed to stay away from humans.
Speaker A:They're dangerous.
Speaker A:And guys is like, my relationship with them made me stronger.
Speaker A:And then he heals Ish him.
Speaker A:And he obviously gets really weak from this.
Speaker B:Which probably isn't the best idea, as we are starting to learn.
Speaker B:Is starting to learn things that maybe you should have weakened yourself.
Speaker B:So at the motel, Sam has tracked Lily down via her rental car.
Speaker B:And they run into Lily in the hallway, who now has two blades.
Speaker A:She's got two blades again.
Speaker A:And she wants.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:Sam's like, we're here to talk.
Speaker A:You know, we want peace.
Speaker A:We're coming.
Speaker A:Peace.
Speaker A:We heard what happened to your family.
Speaker A:And Dean's like, yeah, and Cass is our family, and we can't let you hurt him.
Speaker A:So they all agree they don't want to hurt each other.
Speaker A:And they can in theoretically.
Speaker A:Theoretically talk.
Speaker A:But Sam's like, it's not.
Speaker A:You know, it's not Cass's fault that haven't has a crazy rule about Nephilim and your daughter.
Speaker A:And Lily is like getting.
Speaker A:Tearing up a little bit and comes.
Speaker A:She's kind of incredulous.
Speaker A:And she says her name was May and she was beautiful.
Speaker A:And we get a flashback again to Acabel, Lily and May together.
Speaker A:And she's got a creepy doll in the picture of her.
Speaker A:And she's playing with the creepy doll here, the little girl, May.
Speaker B:And even Acabelle is like, that doll is creepy.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And then Lily says her father gave it to her.
Speaker A:Oh, so.
Speaker A:And so Lily's like, I had a wonderful life.
Speaker A:And they took everything.
Speaker A:So we cut back again, another flashback.
Speaker A:And Lily is with Acabelle on the.
Speaker A:We see.
Speaker A:Look at them on the porch, the scene we saw before.
Speaker A:But when he whispered something to her, it said, take May and run in the inside.
Speaker A:She was trying to gather papers.
Speaker A:And she didn't grab May and run fast enough.
Speaker A:So Isham enters and she's talking and she's.
Speaker A:Well, anyway, so Isham's there.
Speaker A:But Lily's say, explaining that all her life she dreamed about angels and she studied them.
Speaker A:It was her life's work.
Speaker A:And she learned a spell to summon them.
Speaker A:And that's how she met Isham.
Speaker A:And she thought he was divine and perfect.
Speaker B:But he was a monster.
Speaker B:He was obsessed with her.
Speaker B:And so he just became a possessive stalker.
Speaker B:And he blamed a bell for everything and that she needed him for.
Speaker A:For protection.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was awful.
Speaker A:And she's like.
Speaker A:She's like what?
Speaker A:You killed him and now you're gonna kill me?
Speaker A:And Isham says, no, you broke my heart, so I'm gonna break yours.
Speaker A:So man, it's so mean.
Speaker B:And he angel flings Lily away.
Speaker B:And that's when he tells her that she's powerless.
Speaker B:And it's so like.
Speaker B:It's like the worst thing you can ever say to a woman anyways.
Speaker B:And so tells her that he's powerless.
Speaker B:And then he.
Speaker A:And we don't see it, but he pulls me to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's implied that he kills me in front of.
Speaker A:As she screams.
Speaker A:Which is awful.
Speaker A:And she explains to Sam and Dean back in the real.
Speaker A:Back in the present time that she had her daughter before she ever even saw an angel.
Speaker B:And she was human.
Speaker B:And so now we figure out that that was not enough limb that anybody killed.
Speaker B:That was just a little girl.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Isham knew.
Speaker A:Angels are dicks.
Speaker B:Angels are dicks.
Speaker A:So Dan, Sam and Dean awkwardly whisper to each other for a little while.
Speaker A:But she's like, I'm right here and I can hear you.
Speaker A:And so Dean tries to call Cass who is not answering.
Speaker A:And that is a concern at this point.
Speaker A:So Dean's gonna go find check on Castiel and Sam's gonna stay with Lily because they've got to figure out what the.
Speaker A:The real story is here.
Speaker A:So back at the abandoned church, Isham and Cass are there.
Speaker A:And Isham's like doing push ups on with one hand, talking how good he feels while Castiel is like crashing out.
Speaker A:And that's when he realized that he left his phone somewhere.
Speaker A:So he's trying to find his phone.
Speaker A:So that's why he didn't answer when Dean called.
Speaker A:But Sam asked Lily why she waited so long for revenge.
Speaker A:And I think it's a good question because she's like, I didn't have a choice.
Speaker A:I was the angels.
Speaker A:I needed the angels to fall.
Speaker A:They lost their wings because I couldn't hunt them.
Speaker B:They lost their wings.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:But then their wings show up when they die.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Makes no sense.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:Are they.
Speaker A:Are they conceptual wings that burn in the ground?
Speaker A:Is that upsetting?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:So she was just like.
Speaker B:She couldn't track them down.
Speaker B:But you would be surprised what a person can do with a little bit of purpose at abundance of time.
Speaker B:Time.
Speaker B:And that is really true and frightening because that's how you get the Unabomber.
Speaker B:Anyway, so Sam or Lily Sunder.
Speaker B:So Sam picks up an angel blade and he was like, why do you have all these Angel Blades.
Speaker B:Where the are these coming from?
Speaker B:What the do you have, like, the angel blade claw machine?
Speaker B:What the hell is going on?
Speaker A:And she's.
Speaker A:Well, it's not exactly.
Speaker A:But close.
Speaker B:That's not what happens.
Speaker B:But you know what we're thinking.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And she's like, well, I studied angels my whole long life, so I learned how to use their magic to fight and to hear them and to stay alive.
Speaker A:So Lily is, like, studying angel magic with her knowledge of Enochian.
Speaker A:And she says that if, you know, you just have to be willing to pay the price.
Speaker A:And she points at her eye patch when she says that.
Speaker A:Every time I use a spell, a piece of my soul burns away.
Speaker B:And apparently her soul is in her eyeball.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It makes no sense.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:Okay, well, I mean, think about, like, when other people have leveraged, like, when they use, like, Bobby's soul to.
Speaker B:I remember what they were doing.
Speaker B:Doing with it, but that was generally through the chest and through the belly.
Speaker B:That wasn't in an eyeball.
Speaker B:So it's just an odd.
Speaker B:It's an interesting thing.
Speaker A:That part's a weird tie.
Speaker A:Like the whole.
Speaker A:That little.
Speaker B:That's a weird storyline.
Speaker B:I think that's a weird choice that they made.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But eventually what is gonna happen is that she.
Speaker B:She is going to be soulless.
Speaker B:And as we know, like.
Speaker B:And this is, you know, kind of the rub of it too, right?
Speaker B:She's going to get her revenge.
Speaker B:And she's getting her revenge because they took away something that was human.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But by getting her revenge, she will no longer be human.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:It's wild.
Speaker B:What a.
Speaker B:What a.
Speaker B:What a ride, man.
Speaker B:What a ride.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Sam's just like.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker B:And Sam knows about this, right?
Speaker A:He knows he's been soulless.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker A:She's like, I used to dream about my.
Speaker A:I don't like it.
Speaker A:I think it was a telling line.
Speaker A:That sounds gross, but she's like, I used to dream about.
Speaker A:Dream about my daughter every night.
Speaker A:Now I dream about nothing.
Speaker B:Dreaming about nothing sounds fantastic.
Speaker B:I would love to dream about nothing.
Speaker A:And she's like.
Speaker A:But also, when Dean confronts Isham, Isham's gonna kill him.
Speaker A:He's got too much to lose in heaven if the truth comes out.
Speaker A:And when your brother dies, you won't stand in my way.
Speaker A:You'll help me.
Speaker A:And I can wait.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Because she has learned to be patient.
Speaker B:And she's not.
Speaker B:Also, again, that's exactly what would happen.
Speaker B:And so Dean does find Cass and he tells him the daughter was a human story.
Speaker B:And that isa misplaying him.
Speaker B:But unfortunately, they just have really bad luck with people eavesdropping on them.
Speaker A:Good Lord, they do.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Or just walking in on them while they're talking about them.
Speaker B:So Eastern is like, what's up?
Speaker A:And Cassiel's pissed.
Speaker A:He's like, is this true?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And it seems like it's lies, because humans lie.
Speaker A:That's my story.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It makes another monkey reference.
Speaker A:And then filthy apes, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:Who are you gonna.
Speaker A:Who.
Speaker A:You're gonna question my choices.
Speaker A:Okay, tough guy.
Speaker A:And so C pushes.
Speaker A:Castiel pushes this.
Speaker A:He's like, what the can?
Speaker A:He pushes it and he's like.
Speaker A:Initially's like, you're not gonna like the answer.
Speaker A:And as Dean runs, that is to attack him, he gets flung.
Speaker A:And so now we've got a super weak cast trying to fight a super strong Isham.
Speaker A:And it is not good.
Speaker A:It is not good.
Speaker A:Dean's kind of out of commission, and he's israel just punching the out of Castiel.
Speaker A:And he's like.
Speaker A:And we're gonna get a mini monologue where he's like, isn't like, you know, you went to hell.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You're choosing by God, I was jealous.
Speaker A:But you're, you know, you're sad and weak and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:And I'm gonna cure you of your human weakness.
Speaker A:Like, I cured my own by cutting it out.
Speaker A:Because he's gonna go kill Dean.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:And Dean has made a sigil with his blood, which is smart, but unfortunately, because Cass is so weak because he was healing Isham.
Speaker B:Isham's just like, look, if you use that sigil, Cass isn't going to survive.
Speaker B:He's just going to stop splat somewhere.
Speaker B:Because remember, like, if they.
Speaker B:We found out last time that they just kind of like, get flung and get flattened somewhere.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So not good.
Speaker A:Well, so Dean hesitates, and Lily and Sam show up.
Speaker A:And so she is gonna fight Isham, and Sam's gonna go to Dean, and they both jump in and start, you know, help the fight.
Speaker A:And Lily pulls off the eye patch.
Speaker A:Now we see what she was hiding under there.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's a glowy white eye.
Speaker A:Milky.
Speaker A:Glowy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And she just yells, I will never be powerless again.
Speaker B:And it's time for the hand Isham.
Speaker B:And she just puts her hand up.
Speaker B:And he tries to fight her soul magic.
Speaker B:And he can't.
Speaker B:And just when he's almost there, Cass stabs him.
Speaker A:And he tells Lily, you held him for long enough.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so she puts her eye patch back on.
Speaker A:And so, yeah.
Speaker B:Hm.
Speaker B:Is there.
Speaker B:Dead on the ground.
Speaker B:With wings.
Speaker A:With wings after not having wings.
Speaker B:But there they are right there on the ground.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:And then she.
Speaker B:They were like, so, are you done?
Speaker B:What you gonna do now?
Speaker A:What's next?
Speaker A:What do you do now?
Speaker A:And she's like, well, revenge is all I've had for over 100 years.
Speaker A:So Dean's like, wrong answer.
Speaker A:But Castiel apologizes and then acknowledge.
Speaker A:And he apologizes.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He acknowledges her pain and then says that, you know, if you can't forgive me, I'll be waiting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he also, I think, is this.
Speaker B:In his accepting responsibility, he does say that his ignorance was an excuse.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:Which is really, I think, a really.
Speaker B:Especially as far as Supernatural goes, a really good apology.
Speaker B:He acknowledges his fault with the, you know, I did something.
Speaker B:I acknowledge that I was wrong, and I accept that you may not be able to forgive me, but I'm here to take my punishment, you know, which is, you know, pretty good for them.
Speaker B:And she thanks him and walks off.
Speaker A:So we go back to the bunker where Sam, Dean and Castiel are having post.
Speaker A:Post hunt beers, basically, even though it wasn't really a hunt, but it was.
Speaker A:And then they decide to talk about.
Speaker A:About, you know, why Dean was so upset about the Billy situation.
Speaker A:He acknowledges.
Speaker A:He's like, cosmic consequences always bite us in the ass.
Speaker A:And I'm upset about it.
Speaker A:I know you thought it was a good choice.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And Castiel stands by.
Speaker A:It was a good choice.
Speaker A:Even if no records.
Speaker A:No regards.
Speaker A:No regards.
Speaker A:So they're gonna pivot back to looking for Kelly and the Nephilim.
Speaker A:And Castiel explains that this is not a normal Nephilim because it's Lucifer's baby.
Speaker B:It's an archangel's baby.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Got the point.
Speaker A:He's like, so are you able to kill a mom and her kids?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because it's still.
Speaker B:Even though it's an archangel, it's still a human mom with a baby inside her, and it's a baby.
Speaker B:And that.
Speaker B:I don't really like how Cass is like, at one point, I would have hesitated, but now, question mark.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they're like, well, now we're just gonna have a drink and hope we find a better way.
Speaker B:Let's drink and hope we find a better way.
Speaker B:I really.
Speaker B:This is a motto I can get behind.
Speaker B:Let's drink it, hope we find it better way.
Speaker A:I appreciate that.
Speaker A:Is that our new toast?
Speaker B:That's our new motto.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:When things look tough, just drink and hope you find a better way.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:So Lily Sunder had no regerts, but she did have an actress.
Speaker B:And we really did tell the people who play and the others, casting couch is Mr.
Speaker A:Casting couch.
Speaker C:Were they on that show that time with that guy?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So Lily Thunder was played by Alicia Wit.
Speaker A:You may.
Speaker A:I mean, she's pretty well known.
Speaker A:She's been in a lot of stuff.
Speaker A: For example, in: Speaker B:That civil she was in with Jensen Ackles.
Speaker A:Oh, that's funny.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker A:Two and a Half Men, CSI Miami, the Mentalist, Elementary, Walking Dead, and Nashville.
Speaker A:Quite a few episodes of Nashville and some singing in there too.
Speaker A: She has aaliyah in the: Speaker A:Wendy in Justified as a reoccurring character, Zelda and Orange is the New Black as a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:And recent biggest billing was Ruth in Long Legs.
Speaker A:Isham was played by Ian Tracy.
Speaker A: Street, X Files, Smallville,: Speaker A:He was Huckleberry Finn in Huckleberry Finn and his Friends back in the early 80s.
Speaker B:He really does look like a Huckleberry fan.
Speaker B:He just does.
Speaker A:I can see it.
Speaker A:He was a soldier in Time Cop.
Speaker A:He was the Rolling Stone editor in Prozac Nation, a pool shark in the film Elektra, reoccurring character named Bolin in the show Hell on Wheels, Ludlow in the movie man of Steel, Remo in Bates Motel is a reoccurring regular character.
Speaker A:Ray in the Travelers is a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:He plays Sally Port in Peter Pan and Wendy, it's the newer Disney movie.
Speaker A:And then Sheriff Baxter in the Netflix series School Spirits as a regular character.
Speaker A:Benjamin was played by Miranda Edwards.
Speaker A:She's been in episodes of Good Doctor, Ghost Wars, Arrow, Van Helsing, Nancy Drew, Kung Fu and Reginald the Vampire.
Speaker A:She's the Michigan girl in Mean Girls, the Old Mean Girls.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker A:He's in the Magicians.
Speaker A:Was a regular character.
Speaker A:Iris in the Dead Boy Detectives a couple times.
Speaker A:And Lights in the Snowpiercer As a regular role, Acabel was played by Nils Hognastad, doing episodes of Almost Human, Once Upon a Time, Ghost wars, and Blockbuster.
Speaker A:Mirabel was played by Tierra Sorensen.
Speaker A:She's been episodes of Arrow Sight Unseen and Yellow Jackets, and she was a hostess in Fifty Shades.
Speaker A:Freed May was played by Ava Joy, who's been in episodes of Sea and the Night Agent.
Speaker A:She plays young Beth in Batwoman series.
Speaker A:Young Castiel, our other vessel, was played by Jessa Danielson and been an episode of Tomorrow People and Once Upon a Time additionally.
Speaker A:So there we go.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, yeah, it was a pretty.
Speaker B:It was a big cast, too.
Speaker B:I mean, in terms of, like, well, getting Alicia Witten there was, you know, a big pull, which I. I think I read something about that.
Speaker B:But it was.
Speaker B:I think she was really good for that character.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's also really nice to have a strong female.
Speaker B:Like, she's not in protagonist, I would say, because she's not a villain and she's not a hero.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:To quote.
Speaker B:To quote Dean Woodchester, hero.
Speaker A:No, she's neither.
Speaker A:But definitely the protagonist.
Speaker A:And she.
Speaker A:I think that she really drove the story.
Speaker A:I think this was a tragic story, too.
Speaker A:I just wanted to circle back on that.
Speaker B:They killed a child.
Speaker A:And the same writer as Asa Fox, and I'm like, damn.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:He wrote Dead Boy Detectives, too, which I thought was interesting, since.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Super dark.
Speaker A:I'm like, I mean.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And I appreciate.
Speaker B:I think it's interesting you're bringing that up, too, because Asa Fox, too, was also like, a whole person's storyline.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Encapsulating not just a monster of the week, but a whole person of the week.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And this is Lily Sunder.
Speaker B:Like, we saw her.
Speaker B:Her whole storyline from front to back, front to back, with all the tragedy in between.
Speaker B:It still mixes in with the season.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We're still on track, and we're still.
Speaker B:I think it was also a really clever way to further explain what the Nephilim canon is and then to kind of yank the.
Speaker B:The carpet out from underneath you, too, thinking that you are like, oh, we're talking about a Nephilim.
Speaker B:And that's like, oh, nope, that's.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Still not seeing that.
Speaker A:Angels are dicks.
Speaker A:Just still.
Speaker A:Angels are dicks.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And just isha.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:That's just a horrific.
Speaker B:It was just also just a really.
Speaker B:Kind of reminded me of a.
Speaker B:A supernatural version of domestic violence and stalking, you know, and that's also just that layer of ick.
Speaker A:Right, though, to make that slightly gross.
Speaker B:Just see the whole.
Speaker B:Yeah, the whole minute.
Speaker B:You know, just like I thought it was gonna.
Speaker B:I got.
Speaker B:She got love bombed by an angel that she thought was perfect, and then he turned out to be a monster.
Speaker A:You know, like, it that upsetting?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And what is a lesson you take?
Speaker B:Don't trust anybody.
Speaker B:Wait, wait, no, that's.
Speaker A:Is that.
Speaker A:Is that.
Speaker B:Oh, damn, I need to go to therapy.
Speaker B:Like, why is that the lesson you always take?
Speaker B:I'm like, it's not.
Speaker B:I'm sure Lily Sunder could teach.
Speaker B:I mean, like, the super.
Speaker B:I really also enjoyed just the I.
Speaker B:The I'm powerful.
Speaker B:Like, it's always kind of nice, the.
Speaker A:Transition from somebody telling you you're powerless, doing, then changing it and being like, no, I'm.
Speaker A:I'll never be powerless again.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, what are the things that you give up to do that?
Speaker B:And so we're seeing, you know, not.
Speaker B:We're.
Speaker B:We're dealing with the cosmic consequences of what Cass did, but also, you know, we see the same thing with Lily Sunder with the consequences that she took for her revenge.
Speaker B:You know, she's like, she's willing.
Speaker B:She's willing to lose her soul for this.
Speaker B:And we don't know, like, now that her revenge is done, what do you.
Speaker B:What do you do now that you know all the Nokian magic, you know?
Speaker B:And do you teach it to people?
Speaker B:Do you keep it to yourself?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:I would be.
Speaker B:I would become a cult leader.
Speaker B:That's what I would do.
Speaker A:It's reasonable.
Speaker B:Yeah, because you wouldn't care a lot anyways.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:I'd be more fine fleecing people because I wouldn't have a soul.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:I think that's always on.
Speaker B:Let's start a cult is always a good note to end this.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Cheers.
Speaker B:Jerk.
Speaker A:Cheers, man.
Speaker A:Devilish Trap Podcast is a Don't get it production.
Speaker C:Devil's Trap podcast is part of the Ship It Studio podcast network.
Speaker C:Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Devil's Trap Podcast.
Speaker C:You can follow us on Instagram at Devilstrap podcast, Twitter Oztrap Pod, or you can email us@devilstrapilstrappodcast.com don't forget to subscribe, leave reviews and share with all your friends.
Speaker C:We're at all your favorite podcast outlets and@devilstrap podcast.com I'm Babe.
Speaker C:Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
Speaker A:Going up to the speed spirit in the sky.
Speaker A:It's where I'm going to go when I die When I die and they lay me I'm going to go to the place that.
