Bonus More Lore: Magic and Poison in 17th Century France
A Valentine's Present to accompany Season 10, Episode 7 Girls, Girls, Girls in which we talked about La Voisin and the Affair of Poisons. We continue that conversation and delve into the interplay of magic and poison during the 1600s in France.
Research Links
- What Life Was Really Like For Women At Versailles
- The Scandalous Witch Hunt That Poisoned 17th-Century France - Atlas Obscura
- Étienne Guibourg - Wikipedia
- The Masses of the Abbé Guibourg
- City of Light, City of Poison: Murder, Magic, and the First Police Chief of Paris - Google Play Books
- Sex with Kings: 500 Years of Adultery, Power, Rivalry, and Revenge: 9780060585440: Herman, Eleanor: Books
- Catherine La Voisin: Poisons and Magic at the Royal Court of Louis XIV - ScienceDirect
- France: Satan in the Courtroom in: Satanism: A Social History
- Children of Lucifer
- La Voisin - Wikipedia
- ATHÉNAÏS DE MONTESPAN (tchoin du XVIIe) - YouTube
- #312 - Princesses, ladies & adventuresses of the reign of Louis XIV, ... - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library
- Witch Trials & Witchcraft - French Women & Feminists in History: A Resource Guide - Research Guides at Library of Congress
- The geography of witchcraft : Summers, Montague : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
- Louis Vanens (1647 — December, 1691), France alchemist | World Biographical Encyclopedia
- Dragonnades - Wikipedia
- TheAffair
- The Affair of the Poisons : satanism, witchcraft and black magic in the Court of the Sun King
- The Affair of the Poisons: Murder and Black Magic in Louis XIV’s Court – Atmostfear Entertainment
Transcript
Welcome to More Lore, a companion and carryover from season 10, episode 7 of Devil's Trap Podcast.
Speaker A:Liz has more to share.
Speaker B:That's why it's more lore.
Speaker B:You know, you get it.
Speaker B:So this is also something good for Valentine's Day.
Speaker B:It is that season, if you're listening in time, in real time.
Speaker B: oison and we are still in the: Speaker B:We're having or gone away from there.
Speaker B:So as a reminder, my main sources for this are City of Light, City of Poison, Murder, Magic, and the First Police Chief of Paris by Holly Tucker.
Speaker B:These ladies have really long names for their books.
Speaker B:Strange Revelations, Magic, Poison and sacrilege in Louis XIV's France by Linwood Molinara Moline.
Speaker B:I list.
Speaker B:I listened to people introduce her, give lectures today, and I'm still going to screw up her name every time I say it.
Speaker B:And there is also the affair of poisons, murder, infanticide, infant side.
Speaker B:Infantaside, infanticide.
Speaker B:But that feels like when you make somebody feel like a baby, not when you're killing a baby and they're talking about killing a baby.
Speaker B:Infanticide.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think, yeah.
Speaker B:And Satanism at the court of Louis xiv.
Speaker B:And the rest will be in our show notes.
Speaker B:So again, according to Molinari, there were three neighborhoods where groups of the underground criminal magic trade lived and hung out.
Speaker B:The group we are talking about lived in the northern suburbs, suburb Villeneuve neighborhood, so well known that the women with husband problems were told to solve it with a soup from the Rue St.
Speaker B:Denis, which is a street in there, which is still listed as a street that tourists should not go to.
Speaker B:So the villas there, they all had these walled gardens so people couldn't see in.
Speaker B:So it was very cool place to do stuff that was a little shady.
Speaker B:And it was also far from the police in central Paris.
Speaker B:So before the affair of the poisons, it was in vogue to visit with fortune tellers.
Speaker B:And both noble folk and commoners would visit.
Speaker B:Or if you're rich enough, they would come to you is kind of depending on things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Everybody kind of had some shops or they had carts where they would be doing one thing and doing another.
Speaker B:Or like, so the noble people would say, I need a face cream.
Speaker B:And so someone would come and bring them a face cream and then be like, would you also like some poison?
Speaker B:You know, just how things work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:It's upselling.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:So, yeah, the alo.
Speaker B:You know, the, the MLMs of poisoning.
Speaker B:So it was however, viewed poorly by The.
Speaker B:By the Church, which was pretty.
Speaker B:The church and the state were pretty entwined at this point, too.
Speaker B:It was a Roman Catholic church, and the church viewed charms and spells as idolatry, or worse, blasphemy.
Speaker B:And in general, demon summonings are thought to be sacrilegious.
Speaker B:I mean, it's.
Speaker A:But I mean that.
Speaker A:That Typically pretty.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think most of their things, they say summoning demons is.
Speaker B:Is against stuff, but, you know.
Speaker B:So let's talk about the magic first.
Speaker B:So spells could be simple spells usually made up from Christian imagery, some holy language and some nonsense words.
Speaker B:Like, to cure a toothache, you would touch the tooth while saying galbus, galbas, galdus, galata.
Speaker B:3 times during mass and to remain imper.
Speaker B:Oh, sorry.
Speaker B:So you say that while you're holding your teeth, while you're in church, and then your tooth stops hurting.
Speaker B:Isn't exciting.
Speaker B:And it sounds like.
Speaker B:So I think maybe that's what the remains were doing.
Speaker B:So there's another one.
Speaker B:If you want to remain impervious to any weapon, you need to get up in the morning and say three times while still in bed, and then three times after you get out of bed.
Speaker B:I arise in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified for me.
Speaker B:Jesus, please bless me.
Speaker B:Jesus, please guide me.
Speaker B:Jesus, please govern me well and guide me to eternal life.
Speaker B:In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:And then weapons cannot hurt you.
Speaker A:Huh?
Speaker B:That's what they said.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Okay, okay.
Speaker B:So more complex charms than that, though, did require the help of an ordained priest.
Speaker B:So the parishioners watch priests do the host transformation during Mass.
Speaker B:So logically, it followed because they had the magic to do that.
Speaker B:They had magic to do other things.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:For example, if they recited the Gospels over the head of a supplicant, then their prayers would be answered because priests were magic, Right.
Speaker B:They also sold ritual items on the side for extra cash because they weren't paid a lot because they were priests.
Speaker B:So, yeah, these things were ritual items.
Speaker B:And they could be crucifixes, candles that were burned during the Mass, holy water, artisanal holy oil, and.
Speaker B:But especially the Eucharist was thought to be powerful, right?
Speaker B:So a host that was turned into something like during Mass would just be passed around.
Speaker A:Have you seen.
Speaker A:So there's an Amazon ad that's been popping up in mine and some friends of mine feed recently that you can buy mini disposable to go the.
Speaker A:Oh my gosh, for the communion wine, oh, cups packages.
Speaker A:And the Eucharist just reminded Me.
Speaker A:And that's terrible.
Speaker B:Oh, interesting.
Speaker B:They think that that's something you need to purchase.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:During this affair, 47 priests were implicated and arrested and, like, went to various, they did various things to them when they were, when they were picked up.
Speaker B:Several had copies of Incura Diem Leonis Pape, which was not how you say that, but whatever that is a grimoire with love spells, demonic ceremonies for marriage or treasure hunting, and rituals to kill your enemies, to be fair.
Speaker B:Like, these priests, like, they had mistresses and kids.
Speaker B:There's, like, stories of one of them, like, like throwing his kids over the river and sacrificing them to Satan.
Speaker A:Sorry, these priests is what you just said.
Speaker B:I'm just saying they're like, I mean, unless it's a leap to go from, to, I have a book of demonic spells.
Speaker B:Like, that's a leap.
Speaker B:But I'm just saying they weren't like.
Speaker A:I mean, it's fine.
Speaker B:Like the most pious of a fox.
Speaker B:Sure, I, I, you know.
Speaker A:Yes, I'm, I'm hearing you.
Speaker A:I'm hearing you.
Speaker A:It's just funny.
Speaker B:All right, so between the sorceresses, because that's what they were called.
Speaker B:They were called sorceresses.
Speaker B:And I would really like to bring that word back.
Speaker B:Like, we all, like, I mean, maybe it's very hard to spell, especially when you write it in plural.
Speaker B:And it took me.
Speaker B:So maybe that's why witches is more in vogue.
Speaker B:But I think it sounds better.
Speaker B:I think I would be more afraid of someone who was a sorceress than I would be of a witch.
Speaker B:So but between the sorceresses, the magicians and the priests, you could buy cures for headaches, leprosy, pimples, bad breath, labor pains.
Speaker B:But also, like, if you're on the street and you're like, I, I think I have leprosy.
Speaker B:Do you go to a witch?
Speaker B:I mean, I don't know.
Speaker A:Did you.
Speaker A:Do you not have a lot of options at this time?
Speaker B:Like, did you just know someone who had leprosy?
Speaker B:Like, why did you have to keep this in your stock?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I am concerned about that, that you had enough of a population that you had to make the anti leprosy spell.
Speaker A:Like, we had, like, we had to, like, you know, you have to stockpile something.
Speaker A:If not, somebody demanded this.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, all right, so addition to that, there are engines to whiten complexions because pale faces were, like, really in vogue then powders or whiten teeth because they didn't have toothpaste.
Speaker B:So dyes to cover the whites in One's hairs.
Speaker B:Oh, you should let that go, lady.
Speaker B:But all right, so charms a generated life spans of 166 years.
Speaker B:It's very specific about that.
Speaker B:There's also the L'or portable, which is portable gold.
Speaker B:And that could relieve lethargy, ulcers or pretty much a lot of other things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So those were sold to like the fanciest thick clients.
Speaker B:And portable gold, I don't know what was in it.
Speaker B:Probably a toad.
Speaker B:So there were also portable gold.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:There are also health ambulance and charms wealth Ambulance gambling charms were very popular.
Speaker B:Also something you could buy from them was a cowl, which is the thing that sometimes comes out of a baby's head when they're born.
Speaker B:And so they would be made into magical parchment and used to ward off the evil eye.
Speaker B:They also guaranteed lawyers victory at court.
Speaker B:And if you put one on, it would render the wearer irresistible.
Speaker B:So if you walk around with a baby cowl on you, everyone's gonna love you.
Speaker B:I just try that.
Speaker B:But I was also.
Speaker B:It's like only like 1 in 80,000 babies are born with a.
Speaker B:With that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So where were they getting all of these?
Speaker B:It's very interesting.
Speaker B:And so I think people were making up like this is a cow and it was like tissue.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you could also buy fetuses.
Speaker B:They were thought to bring good fortune.
Speaker B:Both the educated and the non educated were convinced that the bodies of newborns, whether stillborn, aborted or murdered immediately after they were, you know, born, had mystical properties.
Speaker B:They all liked a baby.
Speaker B:You can.
Speaker B:I like this one because of the name Pistole Volat.
Speaker B:And that is a magical coin that could be spent repeatedly and always reappear in your pocket.
Speaker B:But they also had something which is the name to glow, whatever.
Speaker B:Hannah Glory.
Speaker B:When we've talked about hand of Glories on the show.
Speaker B:Yeah, this is a different one.
Speaker B:So instead of being able to get yourself into a house, this one would double the amount of gold or silver place beside it.
Speaker B:But it only guaranteed like a certain amount of times.
Speaker B:And to get that it involves skinning a mare and he and then putting that like got hide into a pot and then the pot and you can't haggle for the pot.
Speaker B:And then like you buy the pot and then like you put the hair, the mayor in it and then like a snake appears and then you tell the snake you'll do whatever it wants.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker B:But yeah, it was, that's why it was so expensive.
Speaker B:So yeah, I mean, yeah, that's why you only the richest people did it.
Speaker B:La Voisin, she charged a customer 50 Louis.
Speaker B:The ore, which I think is 50 gold pieces, and an amethyst ring to make them one.
Speaker B:So spells to find treasure were also very possible, very popular.
Speaker B:They believe that there is this whole, like, thing that happened 20 years before the affair where all these people revolted because they didn't like monarchy or some craziness like that.
Speaker B:You know, crazy people rebelling against authority.
Speaker B:But they thought that they buried a bunch of treasure by the palace.
Speaker B:So one of the ways that you could do that would be you would go.
Speaker B:You'd have to be standing exactly where the treasure was, and you would strike the ground three times with your left heel and say, sadie Satani.
Speaker B:RG Phones Tour bus, come to me.
Speaker B:Sarah Don will be called Seria Tour.
Speaker B:And then you click three more times.
Speaker B:And if there's any more treasure than you, then something will whisper it in your ear, which I do not like.
Speaker B:Like, I was like, why is it?
Speaker B:I'm like, you could, like, write it down.
Speaker B:You could have a sign, like, maybe a bell, like, dude, why.
Speaker B:Why don't.
Speaker A:In my ear.
Speaker B:No, pass.
Speaker B:Pass.
Speaker B:No, I don't think the treasure is worth it.
Speaker B:You can also get demonic conjurations.
Speaker B:And so they would call up malignant spirits who had to be compelled to cooperate.
Speaker B:But if the person doing it didn't have the skills, like, their life and soul were in danger and things could just go awry.
Speaker B:According to the book of the conjurations of Pope Honorius, which was one of the grimoires they found in Voice, then the conjuration of the demon Bacher, possessor and master of hidden treasures, would bring great riches.
Speaker B:But it could only take place on a Wednesday between midnight and 3am standing within the safe confines of a large circle traced on the ground, the necromancer was to present a black crow as payment to the demon when it appeared.
Speaker B:It is not specific if the crow was alive or dead.
Speaker B:If you kill a crow, you're.
Speaker B:You're evil and you don't deserve your demon.
Speaker B:So bature then would appear after the necromancer intoned, it goes through his whole thing, really.
Speaker B:I conjure thee, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:So if, but so you can only do that on a Wednesday if the necromancer and his clients prefer to search for treasure on other days of the week.
Speaker B:The grim rod.
Speaker B:Grim roar.
Speaker B:Oh, that's a hard word to say.
Speaker B:Included conjurations for summoning the demon.
Speaker B:A demon Aquiel on Sundays and the demon Akam on Tuesdays.
Speaker B:So there were different demons for different days of the week.
Speaker B:I mean, they all had to keep a schedule.
Speaker B:I like that, you know, it's organized.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They have their shifts.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think the biggest.
Speaker B:The biggest thing that people went to magicians for, though, was the love magic, right?
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:So men were largely.
Speaker B:But really it was because of money, right?
Speaker B:So men were into it to get to social or beneficial relationships, while the women wanted out of their abuse, abusive marriages that they were forced to be in because divorce was illegal.
Speaker B:So if you were able to get a divorce, you were often forbidden from marrying again.
Speaker B:And so they're just really hard to do.
Speaker B:They didn't like them.
Speaker B:Also, the members of the nobility who sat in the parliament of Paris enacted a series of regulations that extended their authority over the marriage and inheritance rights of children and women, which helped establish the networks of robe families that ensured that offices remained within family patrimonies.
Speaker B:So really making sure nobility stay with nobility and all the people who are in power stay within power.
Speaker B:They didn't outside of that and get back, you know.
Speaker B:So love magic was then used to defy the patriarchy and really how people get out of these marriages.
Speaker B:Madame de Veroux contracted voice then to bring about the death of her husband and to win the love of a certain abbe, which is a priest, at the same time.
Speaker B:So I say, calm down, lady, you don't need to marry a priest.
Speaker B:It's fine.
Speaker B:Like, if he doesn't already love you, like, just take one, right?
Speaker B:Get rid of the husband and then let's see what happens.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, just be greedy.
Speaker B:So they also.
Speaker B:They also made these like love potions.
Speaker B:Enemies of the state, right.
Speaker B:So they're not only are these sacrilegious because they're idolatry and they're messing with, you know, messing with church, but they're also going against the state because they're going against all these predefined systems that we have in place.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So no one liked it, but.
Speaker B:But everyone did it.
Speaker B:Everyone.
Speaker B:No one liked it, but everyone did it.
Speaker B:So love match.
Speaker A:I feel like everybody just thinks everybody else likes it and so they don't say things.
Speaker A:And sometimes like that it's like, it's real awkward.
Speaker A:Like, wait, you hated this too?
Speaker A:Why didn't we.
Speaker B:So some of the ways that you can make love magic.
Speaker B:That sounds funny.
Speaker B:So often it.
Speaker B:Reproductive matter was used so that could be menstrual blood, which was dried and powdered, which Makes me wonder, like, did women just have a side gig like once a month?
Speaker B:You're like, I'm gonna make 10 extra bucks and like, take like.
Speaker B:And that's what you did.
Speaker B:Was there a divas cup for this?
Speaker B:But it'd be French.
Speaker B:It'd be really fancy, right?
Speaker B:You know, it would be like.
Speaker B:So in order to get your lover interested in you, you could sprinkle your dried and powder menstrual blood over their food.
Speaker B:I think it's going to give them a reaction.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's gonna be the one you're looking for, but, you.
Speaker A:Know, I don't think I would get a sexy reaction.
Speaker A:At least in modern times.
Speaker A:I don't know about.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So other reproductive material, dried afterbirth, breast milk, more fetuses, umbilical cords, concentrated after birth was used in a lot of love ceremonies.
Speaker B:And they would add in some menstrual.
Speaker A:Sounds like.
Speaker A:I don't want to be gross.
Speaker A:That just sounds not sexy.
Speaker B:But you don't think consecrated after birth is hot.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker B:Well, I don't think like, you, like, you like, ate the afterbirth and then I think like, you like, fed it to the person and then they fell in love with you.
Speaker B:Because the afterbirth.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:I'm sure that's what it is.
Speaker A:It's just my head right now.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker B:So also, of course, if we have menstrual blood and women's stuff, we have men part.
Speaker B:So sperm was often something that was used.
Speaker B:If you could get the sperm of the person that you were going after, that was even better.
Speaker B:But that, you know, that's kind of weird.
Speaker B:Like if you're not.
Speaker B:You're not already in love.
Speaker B:Like, getting the sperm could be hard, but very.
Speaker B:You could have some adventures trying to acquire that.
Speaker B:So one of the other things I thought was interesting in love magic is this thing called hippomane.
Speaker B:And it is the small, black, fleshy mass found on the forehead of a newborn foal.
Speaker B:It's weird.
Speaker B:I look this shit up, it's like this week, it's like a weird black foam that like baby horses, like, get on their heads.
Speaker B:Not all of them, but like, they think it has something to do with just the proteins that are built up all, you know, while they're make.
Speaker A:While you're making a horse and while they're being made.
Speaker B:While they're being made.
Speaker B:Like just like.
Speaker B:It's kind of like an after thing.
Speaker B:And then sometimes it's in their head and it's really squishy.
Speaker B:And I don't want to touch it, but I do.
Speaker A:I don't want to touch it, but I have to.
Speaker B:But I have to.
Speaker B:I have to know what it feels like.
Speaker B:So they would mix that with blood.
Speaker B:And then in Voiceland's grimoire, she had a warning that you have to be careful not to give too much, because instead of engaging the infection affections of the one you love, this could cause them to vomit furiously and even cause death, which would be counterproductive.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:A lot of body fluids.
Speaker B:It's a lot of body fluids, which typically.
Speaker B:That's sex and love, right?
Speaker B:Love is just a lot of body fluid.
Speaker A:So love is a lot of body fluid.
Speaker B:Happy Valentine's Day.
Speaker B:We're going to put that on Valentine's Day cards.
Speaker B:So you guys to send all your loved ones.
Speaker B:So love magic rights could be just lots of kneeling and praying with black candles.
Speaker B:Candles that was, you know, just like they called that, I guess again, you know, like prayers or spells.
Speaker B:Like if you just say them, like repetitively, you know, so they were also do, like spells over items and wax effigies.
Speaker B:There are also complex magical ritual ceremonies.
Speaker B:The risk is being necromancy, which at that time, conjuring demons, not the dead people think that we talk about today, Right?
Speaker B:So being a necromancer required a grimoire and a great force of will to compel the spirits to obey your commands.
Speaker B:The French believed ordained priests made the best necromancers.
Speaker B:And they would wear their normal priest outfits while they were doing these ceremonies.
Speaker B:According to the book of the conjurations, the conjuration of the demon basher, possessor and master of hidden treasures.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker B:We already talked about him, didn't we?
Speaker B:We're doubling that.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:There's another one.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:That's a crow thing.
Speaker B:Okay, so we got.
Speaker B:We talked about him.
Speaker B:Let's skip that and go to the amatory mask.
Speaker B:So this is said over naked women.
Speaker B:We talked.
Speaker B:A naked woman.
Speaker B:We talked about this the other day.
Speaker B:And this is complete with like, she gets a napkin across her stomach, she gets a chalice.
Speaker B:All these things.
Speaker B:And I'm pretty sure if these existed, they were excuses for priests to sleep with vulnerable women.
Speaker B:Women.
Speaker B: There was a letter in: Speaker B:And the priest said, the best way is that we need to do this mass over your naked body.
Speaker B:Which he did.
Speaker B:And then when it didn't work.
Speaker B:And she came back.
Speaker B:He was like, well, maybe if we have sex afterwards and it'll work better.
Speaker B:And then she did it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But it still didn't work because.
Speaker B:Yeah, weird.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was said that an amatory mass was held in voice sense for the Mademoiselle de Orlette.
Speaker B:One of them.
Speaker B:That's gonna be a coughing fit.
Speaker B:One of the Louis 14.
Speaker A:Oh, let's don't joke.
Speaker B:So she was one of Louis XIV's mistresses.
Speaker B:And so her and a man came to a priest at voice in house.
Speaker B:In order to make the king fall in love with her, she put her menstrual blood in a cup.
Speaker B:And then the man jacked off into the same chalice cup.
Speaker B:And then the priest stirred in the powder of a bat into it.
Speaker B:And then they said, now you take this pace and you put it on the king and he will love you.
Speaker B:You didn't say how you put this paste of come menstrual blood and bat.
Speaker B:Bat.
Speaker A:I was like, this sounds like something nausea would be really into.
Speaker B:I think she would be.
Speaker B:But I also don't like.
Speaker B:I feel like this is a consensual thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:If you're gonna put powder bat on me, you need to ask my permission.
Speaker B:You can't just let me powder a bat.
Speaker B:You know, that's the problem.
Speaker A:That's the one you have a problem with.
Speaker B:Moving on.
Speaker B:Poison.
Speaker B:Okay, so poison.
Speaker B:So we talked last time about the toast.
Speaker B:So voice said, milk, toads, other venom.
Speaker B:The toads were delivered.
Speaker A:Milking toad venom.
Speaker B:Milking milking toad venom.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Which is basically just like.
Speaker B:Because it comes out of their skin.
Speaker B:So I think you're just like kind of shaking them, shaking their skin.
Speaker B:And so they would be delivered.
Speaker B:Jacking off to jacking off Frogs.
Speaker B:Toads.
Speaker B:So the toads were delivered in a large pot that was filled by her neighbor, Madame Vautier.
Speaker B:That was Fortier's job.
Speaker B:After the venom was collected, they were then wrapped in muslin and tossed alive onto the coals.
Speaker B:And then they were cooked until they were crisp enough to be ground into a toxic powder.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Other things to poison less gross.
Speaker B:Powdered diamonds.
Speaker B:That was a popular poison at the time.
Speaker B:Powder.
Speaker B:Yeah, you just grind up diamonds and then you swallow them and then you die because you can't sparkled.
Speaker B:You sparkle, though, but you.
Speaker B:But you die.
Speaker A:You die because it cut you.
Speaker A:Is that the whole.
Speaker B:It'll cut you from the inside.
Speaker A:Like there was an R.L.
Speaker A:stein book or something.
Speaker A:One of those goose poops or that I Read like I was like a young teenager that I'm scarred for life because they fed somebody ground glass to kill them like that, slowly.
Speaker B:Yeah, that would also be an alternative.
Speaker B:You couldn't afford the diamonds because the diamonds were so really expensive.
Speaker B:People would give people ground glass.
Speaker B:They also used arsenic and that was something that was still undetectable by doctors at the time.
Speaker B:Powdered arsenic was not as harmful as the liquid version because you could just mix that with liquids and people wouldn't know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But instead of also doing that the way by the mouth.
Speaker B:Arsenic enemas were also very popular because they would cause the intestines to shrink and the victim to die from obstructed bowel, which was just a normal way that people died.
Speaker B:So they wouldn't know that you shoved arsenic up their ass.
Speaker B:Herbs were also popular.
Speaker B:A shepherd known as Mater Pierre furnished many of the sources.
Speaker B:Sorceresses with herbs like ergo dru and mandrake.
Speaker B:There was also opium, hemlock, vitriol or sulfuric acid flocely which is a poisonous mushroom.
Speaker B:Aloe and meadow buttercup, an herb that caused facial distortion so the victim smiles derangely and dementedly while they die.
Speaker A:That's awful, but kind of fun.
Speaker B:It's awful.
Speaker B:It means it's probably.
Speaker B:I'm sure it's in a horror movie, but yeah, it's so.
Speaker B:They also use biting stone crop and juniper, which caused digestive systems to go all wonky.
Speaker B:The most highly undetectable toxin, the secret de crapa crappy crap you crap was a no.
Speaker B:It was famously used by the Marquis de Brinville, which I told you we're going to talk about her today.
Speaker B:This is all we're going to talk about her because it's so was too long.
Speaker B:So known for exorbitant cost.
Speaker B:This toad derived poison remain.
Speaker B:How you got it remains shrouded in mystery.
Speaker B:Its recipe is carefully guarded.
Speaker B:There was a woman named Menadia and she said that if you took some salt and fed it to a toad, the toad would start to foam at the mouth.
Speaker B:Then if you scrape up that foam and put it in an enema, the person who ingested the poison would die and nobody would know how except for the fact that that person just had a toad enema.
Speaker B:But beyond that, they would have no idea how this person died.
Speaker B:A sorceress named La David put a live toad in a box of empiricists with small holes.
Speaker B:She would bury the box in a hole in the ground and the ants would enter the box through the holes and Then kill the toad.
Speaker B:The toad in the ants who would also die and not leave the box would maybe the toad killed them, I'm not sure.
Speaker B:So then they take the toad and the ants drive them up and ground them into a powder.
Speaker B:Francois Ballot, a soldier and son of boss, claimed that he learned how to infuse a silver goblet.
Speaker B:So whoever drank from it died.
Speaker B:He said take a toad, whip it and make it swallow arsenic and then kill it in the cup or the silver vessel you want to poison.
Speaker B:And then the toy's toads urine will.
Speaker B:Will form the poison.
Speaker B:I mean you also like there's a lot of process in there.
Speaker B:And I'm just saying, if you're drinking from a cup with.
Speaker B:With a dead toad in it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, so final things on the poisoning.
Speaker B:And this was something that was during the interrogations of the affair de Poisson.
Speaker B:And this was our favorite boss lady.
Speaker B:You know, voice son is the main character of this.
Speaker B:But I think boss lady has some runner up charm.
Speaker B:So during questioning about powders found when her house was searched, Boss said the blue green powder was cantharsis and that maybe it was can theradin, which is a poison made from blistered beetle secretion or cantharsis, which is a Spanish fly beetle, which I think is more likely because Spanish fly was very popular then.
Speaker B:But she said it was for her corns.
Speaker B:That brown powder.
Speaker B:She was like, it's menstrual blood.
Speaker B:Probably if I use that on my feet too, that's for my corns.
Speaker B:She was like, I think I can ID purpose.
Speaker B:It is multipurpose.
Speaker B:And she was like, I think that's some shrimp powder.
Speaker B:Those look like fingernail clippings.
Speaker B:Maybe that's some arsenic.
Speaker B:That arsenic's not mine though.
Speaker B:That was Cheron's.
Speaker B:Cheron brought it over when she brought me her toads, like the toads are probably also for her court.
Speaker B:So Madame Sharon was a fruit vendor who broke her arm trying to avoid being captured.
Speaker B:She admitted she went to the Palace Saint Germain because that is where her fruit stand was.
Speaker B:But nope, she never sold poison.
Speaker B:That powder was horse stander used for the plaster to treat her arms.
Speaker B:She was sentenced to burned alive after the question by brodicans.
Speaker B:The torture was accompanied by M.
Speaker B:Basu.
Speaker B:I just wanted to point out again that the doctor is dressed in a long black velvet gown gown.
Speaker B:And I just really appreciate that imagery.
Speaker B:So the imagine that at a hospital.
Speaker A:Now is everybody swishing around along.
Speaker A:It'd be like hogwarts it would be.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:I would much prefer long black velvet gown than white coats.
Speaker B:I mean, think of how much of you could hide on there too.
Speaker A:You couldn't see any blood velvet, like get stuck.
Speaker B:I bet they put on a white coat so people could tell that they were clean or not.
Speaker B:I have a strong feeling that's why.
Speaker B:So he would be there just to make sure that how far the torture could go.
Speaker B:And a surgeon would be there to help her patch her about to together.
Speaker B:So unfortunately, that was the end of Madame Michelle Ron.
Speaker B:And that brings us to the end of our war lore.
Speaker B:I did tell you I was going to talk to you about different methods of torture, but we don't have enough time for that.
Speaker B:And I feel like if you really want to know that stuff, you can look it up.
Speaker B:And I would recommend if you want to look up one from the affair to poisons, look up the water torture in Paris, France.
Speaker B:And I'm just going to say it's not the water torture you think it is.
Speaker B:It's really bad that.
Speaker B:So go look that up.
Speaker B:And with that.
Speaker A:That's fun.
Speaker B:That's fun.
Speaker B:On a fun note.
Speaker B:See, I didn't.
Speaker B:I didn't make you hear about it, Diana.
Speaker B:I made other people go look it up.
Speaker B:I said I spared you.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Well, cheers.
Speaker B:Jerk.
Speaker A:Cheers.
