10:14 The Executioner's Song
AI SAYS: In this episode of the Devil's Trap podcast, hosts Diana and Liz delve into Season 10, Episode 14 of Supernatural, titled 'The Executioner's Song.' They discuss the episode's plot, focusing on the character Cain and his dark intentions, as well as Rowena's manipulative schemes. The conversation also touches on the cultural context of true crime, the significance of baby animals in Texas, and the dynamics between the main characters, Dean and Sam. In this episode, the conversation delves into the complex themes of betrayal, fear, and the moral dilemmas faced by the characters in the supernatural world. The discussion highlights the tension between free will and predetermination, particularly in relation to the Mark of Cain and its implications for Dean Winchester. The exploration of genetics and crime adds depth to the narrative, questioning whether one's fate is determined by nature or nurture. The final confrontation between Dean and Kane serves as a pivotal moment, showcasing the choices and consequences that define their paths.
Liz says: We talk about how hot Cain is and if the Serial Killer gene MAO-A can predict murder.
Research Links
- Looking at Five Generations of a Single Dutch Family to Understand the Genetics of Violence - Longreads
- Does 'The Warrior Gene' prove that killers are born and not made? | Crime+Investigation UK
- Genetic Factors Tied to Violent Behaviors | MedPage Today
- The Truth About the Serial Killer Gene: Do Genetics Cause Killers?
- Is The "Serial Killer Gene" From Riverdale Fact Or Fiction? » ScienceABC
- The Warrior Gene: 5 Common Myths Debunked - Gene Food
- Born to Kill? The story of ‘Serial Killer’ genes – Berkeley Scientific Journal
Transcript
On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast, we've got Cain with the good.
Speaker B:Hair and tainted blood.
Speaker B:Oh, tainted blood.
Speaker B:Don't touch me, please.
Speaker B:I cannot stand the way you tease.
Speaker A:No, let's really do this.
Speaker B:Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker B:I'm Diana.
Speaker A:I'm Liz.
Speaker B:And this week we're going to Talk Season 10, Episode 14, the Executioner Song.
Speaker A:That's what it's called.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker B:It's pretty straightforward.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think it describes all the episode too.
Speaker A:Sort of good on them.
Speaker A:How you doing?
Speaker B:I'm all right.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker B:This week?
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Why is that question so triggering?
Speaker A:It's not meant to be.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'm breathing.
Speaker A:We're here.
Speaker A:Didn't.
Speaker B:Did you go to the Ren Fair?
Speaker A:Well, I went to the Sherwood Fair, which isn't the Ren Fair, because the Ren Fair is in Houston and The one in McDade is the Sherwood Fair.
Speaker A:Sharewood.
Speaker A:Sherwood.
Speaker A:Am I saying that weird?
Speaker A:Sherwood, wherever Robin Hood is from.
Speaker B:The Nottingham, just not Sherwood Forest.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So it was a good time.
Speaker A:I saw a vulture.
Speaker A:Sorry, that.
Speaker A:That was the important.
Speaker A:The important thing.
Speaker A:I saw vulture and two ravens, and they were part of the.
Speaker A:The bird show, so they were pretty cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, the.
Speaker A:The vultured was named Ziggy.
Speaker A:He did.
Speaker A:He did not vomit in front of everybody, which made me sad.
Speaker A:But the ravens were also pretty cool.
Speaker A:I wanted to hear them talk.
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker A:We didn't go through the Muse, though.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker B:It was just.
Speaker A:It was humid as.
Speaker A:Because it was just.
Speaker A:It was raining for the first couple of hours, but it was like, not.
Speaker A:Not a hard rain.
Speaker A:It was just.
Speaker A:It was a.
Speaker A:Just a misty rain that made it really humid.
Speaker A:And so every once in a while, you'd be fine.
Speaker A:And then you'd be like, oh, it feels great.
Speaker A:And then you'd be like, oh, God, I'm sweating, I'm sweating.
Speaker A:I'm sweating so bad.
Speaker A:And, like, we asked, like, the first drinks we got, which were the only drinks we got, I was like, oh, let's get snake bites.
Speaker A:Those sound really good.
Speaker A:And then they gave us black velvets instead.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So if you don't know, there is a difference between those.
Speaker A:A snake bite is a combination of a cider and a lager.
Speaker A:Traditionally, a bass and a black velvet is a combination of a cider and a Guinness.
Speaker A:So those are two very different things.
Speaker A:They both have cider in them, but so they're different, but similar.
Speaker A:So we got the black velvets and just accepted them because they're like, that's fine, we will drink these.
Speaker A:But then they made our stomach feel bad.
Speaker A:And so then I did not drink anything for the rest of the day.
Speaker A:I did not have a turkey leg.
Speaker B:Oh, no turkey leg.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:So I do feel deprived of my turkey leg, but I also didn't want to waste the turkey leg.
Speaker A:But I also didn't want to have a greasy turkey leg in my stomach because I had to drive another hour after that and then drive like three hours home.
Speaker A:So doing that with greasy turkey leg.
Speaker B:In your stomach sounds unpleasant.
Speaker A:Sounded.
Speaker A:Didn't sound fun.
Speaker B:I'm not a turkey like person, which I know some people find to be blasphemous.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker B:I'm just not.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm not, like, against them.
Speaker B:I'm just not excited about them.
Speaker A:It's just the concept of a giant fucking bird leg.
Speaker A:I guess you feel powerful.
Speaker B:The birds and be like, look what I'll do to you next.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I can guarantee you I will never for the rest of my life be able to eat a fudgeing turkey leg by myself.
Speaker A:Those days are so gone.
Speaker A:See, what I need is, like, someone with like a teenager.
Speaker A:So the teenager can get the turkey leg and I can get, like, I just get the tooth, like, two pieces off it, which is what I want.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You satisfy the taste and the craving, and then I don't want to puke.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Children got to be good for something, right?
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker A:Eat from my acid reflux, children.
Speaker A:But yeah, beyond that, I mean, it was.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:It's a fun fair.
Speaker A:It's not huge, you know, it's easily easy to walk around.
Speaker A:There's a lot of good performers.
Speaker A:We saw a dude escape from a underwater, like, underwater cage, and he didn't die.
Speaker A:So that was great.
Speaker B:That was a Houdini.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I always like some good magic stuff.
Speaker A:And they have good long bows.
Speaker A:The swords are kind of disappointing as for kind of the crafts.
Speaker A:And I think what it is is just I find I've been to these craft stores too many, too many years.
Speaker A:And most of people don't really rotate out their merchandise.
Speaker A:They just kind of go off the same thing.
Speaker A:So once you've kind of seen them, it's sort of the same kind of witchy kind, you know, things.
Speaker A:But they're not great.
Speaker A:Sometimes they are, but we just.
Speaker A:I've had or I've already Gotten the good ones.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:I will say Valkyries.
Speaker A:Almost like a Valkyrie.
Speaker A:Valkyries headpieces.
Speaker A:But it is a crown.
Speaker A:These ladies who make crowns and those were fantastic.
Speaker A:They had like one that had rubber ducks and all these crystals on it that were cool.
Speaker A:And there was another one that had like the full like face veil on it, which I love on a crown.
Speaker A:But it was so humid because I originally I was gonna get a crown and I just kind of walked through there like.
Speaker A:Nope, not putting anything on my head.
Speaker A:Nuh.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's reasonable.
Speaker A:Unless the crown like has a fan embedded in it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I had.
Speaker A:I brought a manual fan and a portable electronic fan.
Speaker A:Like and I did use both of them at the same time at some points.
Speaker B:That's a lot of fan.
Speaker A:I don't around anymore.
Speaker A:Like, you know, you take.
Speaker A:I take fans of me everywhere I go.
Speaker B:All the fans.
Speaker B:You've been hearing fans for a while.
Speaker B:Only fans.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I've been sweating for a long time.
Speaker B:Well, but you're usually prepared is my point.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just saying.
Speaker B:You're a fan enthusiast.
Speaker A:I am.
Speaker A:I am a fan of fans.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm an only fan about fans.
Speaker A:How meta could you get into a.
Speaker B:Fan to an only a fan.
Speaker B:Only fans of fans.
Speaker B:Where it's an only fan, it's just fanning themselves.
Speaker A:Only fans.
Speaker A:Not even a person.
Speaker A:Only fans.
Speaker A:Somebody has to have done that.
Speaker A:Like we cannot be the first.
Speaker A:We are not this clever.
Speaker A:So no.
Speaker B:I was telling someone the other day I was like it was related to someone working on like band or song or something names.
Speaker B:And I was like, just remember that there is no original idea anymore and somebody will have thought of anything that.
Speaker A:You thought of already.
Speaker B:The rules, just make sure you can google it.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:That's all I got.
Speaker A:And they made a TikTok about it.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:Just make sure you can google it.
Speaker B:That's the only rule.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Fun.
Speaker B:That's fun.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that was.
Speaker A:That was my weekend mostly.
Speaker A:What about you?
Speaker B:I did birthday.
Speaker A:Oh, oh.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:I will say what I think.
Speaker A:You know, besides Diana's birthday, whatever birthday, who cares?
Speaker A:The other thing that I want everyone to know is that because it is spring, it is also baby animal season in Texas and they have been showing up this year.
Speaker A:I have almost wrecked so many times.
Speaker A:There are baby goats out there that are so freaking.
Speaker A:They look like baby like.
Speaker A:Like little deer that are walking on ice and they're just like stumbling around and there's baby horses everywhere and tiny baby cows and they're just like all over.
Speaker A:And so if I run into you in Texas, sorry, there was a cute animal.
Speaker A:And I believe that is.
Speaker A:Yeah, that is an excuse that is permissible by Texas law.
Speaker B:Is it?
Speaker A:If I'm looking at a cute baby animal, I.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I can do whatever I want.
Speaker B:Noted.
Speaker A:It's a baby animal clause.
Speaker A:You cannot be held accountable for what happened when you saw it.
Speaker B:You just gotta have an attorney on retainer for that one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was my birthday weekend.
Speaker B:I did not have a party.
Speaker A:We did things.
Speaker A:You could have had a party.
Speaker B:Yeah, we did family dinner and went to far.
Speaker A:People celebrated you.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, we did.
Speaker B:And it was lovely.
Speaker B:And then Babe and I went to punk rock show Saturday and went and saw Murphy's Law and Agnostic Front.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Then we went super fancy date night.
Speaker B:Dinner on Sunday at Town Hearth, which is one of our super favorite spots to go if you really want, like a badass martini and some steak.
Speaker B:And then we did.
Speaker B:So that's what we did.
Speaker B:And I took a day off and we bought plants.
Speaker A:That was exciting.
Speaker A:The plants are very exciting.
Speaker A:Plants are always exciting.
Speaker A:My new seed packets are here.
Speaker A:I'm about to start figuring out and strategizing what I'm gonna plant and raise.
Speaker A:And I already told my uncle he's gonna help me build my garden boxes because he wanted to come hang out by my pool.
Speaker A:And I was like, okay, you can do that if.
Speaker A:But I'll put you to work.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Well, he can help.
Speaker A:Like, if.
Speaker A:My uncle, who is a contractor, helped me build an elevated garden bed for my porch.
Speaker A:It will take about an hour.
Speaker A:If I do it.
Speaker A:It about a week.
Speaker B:Fair.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And I also got a new nail gun.
Speaker A:So I'm very excited about.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:To go with my new.
Speaker A:I never was like, she got a saw and a nail gun.
Speaker A:What is happening?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:I didn't know about the nail gun.
Speaker B:You told me about the saw.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:To get.
Speaker A:Because to make the.
Speaker A:The planter beds, I needed a nail gun.
Speaker A:And I haven't, like, been research, like, trying to figure out which one I needed.
Speaker A:Apparently I needed the Brad nailer.
Speaker A:There's so many different kinds of nail guns.
Speaker B:Who knew Dave bought one of those and I haven't gotten to use it.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:You should go build.
Speaker A:Build yourself something this weekend so you can build.
Speaker A:You build yourself a garden planner.
Speaker A:I'll send you the plans.
Speaker A:There's so many things you can build anyway.
Speaker A:All right, so enough of our Yickety yakting.
Speaker A:I don't think there's really any news in the Jared Jensen creation world right now.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think we're just.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Let's just talk about my.
Speaker A:My honey bear.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Let's talk about this episode.
Speaker A:So the Executioner song.
Speaker A:This was season 10, episode 14.
Speaker A:It first aired right after Valentine's Day, February 17th.
Speaker A:It was a romantic Valentine's Day episode.
Speaker A:2015.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so it was directed by Mr.
Speaker A:Phil Scritchia, who we last saw direct this year in season in fan fiction.
Speaker A:That was episode five of the season and was written by Ro.
Speaker A:Robert Barrons, who did episode seven, Girls, Girls, Girls, which I think is really you.
Speaker A:You can hear him kind of crafting Rowena's dialogue.
Speaker A:I think he's really responsible a lot for the way she sounds.
Speaker A:So we'll talk about some of her fun language in this one.
Speaker A:So we're gonna start off in prison.
Speaker B:In prison.
Speaker B:Yay.
Speaker B:I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:And we've got this guy's kind of crying and asking for mail, and the.
Speaker B:He just.
Speaker B:But then he goes from that to, like, just taunting the guard about his wife, which is not very nice.
Speaker B:So we figure out.
Speaker B:We piece together through context clues that we are on death row, and this guy who's in, like, solitary is in, like, a.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, it's not.
Speaker A:He's not in solitary.
Speaker A:He's just on death row.
Speaker B:Well, he's on death row, but.
Speaker A:So, yeah, death row is solitary.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Solitary cell.
Speaker B:And so he is saying.
Speaker B:Talking about how he killed someone, killed a woman that had the same name as the guard's wife.
Speaker B:He's just not very nice.
Speaker A:No, he's not.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He is threatening the CEO.
Speaker A:And we also learned that he's being executed in two weeks.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So then the.
Speaker B:The guard does not really give in to his teasing and leaves him, which is a good.
Speaker A:You know, good for you.
Speaker A:Not you.
Speaker A:That's part of your job, is not to.
Speaker A:And riled up by these guys.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so he leaves.
Speaker B:And as he's leaving, where we see the lights on.
Speaker B:On the security footage of the same hallway are flickering.
Speaker B:And now the guards are in their little guard station getting their coffee and talking about, like, how this guy was giving him the normal grief that he always gives him.
Speaker B:Tommy was talking his again.
Speaker B:And we've got some mysterious dark dude.
Speaker B:Dark as in shadow.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:Walking down the hallway.
Speaker B:The lights are turning off, and we've got the sound of power buzzing and chains.
Speaker B:And the lights are Turning off down this hallway.
Speaker B:And then the guard that was getting taunted sees this on the camera and it's about to be like wtf?
Speaker B:And then all the power goes out, like in that, in that hall.
Speaker B:So it goes pitch black, then it pops back on and everything looks normal.
Speaker B:So he ignores it.
Speaker B:But we see that what's happened now is that Cain is inside Tommy's cell.
Speaker A:Tommy is getting a conjugal visit from the father of murder.
Speaker B:Is that what it is?
Speaker A:That's what I would expect to happen.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:And so he does reference to himself as the father of murder.
Speaker B:And he says that Tommy pretty like.
Speaker A:I mean, that's kind of arrogant, right?
Speaker A:Like to call yourself the father of murder.
Speaker A:I mean, I know he is, but it'd still be a little humble.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker B:Yeah, humility is a real thing.
Speaker B:Kane need to practice that a little bit.
Speaker B:A little bit, you know, just a little bit.
Speaker A:Just pretend to not be so prideful.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:But I guess he's.
Speaker B:He's gonna call out.
Speaker B:Tommy was.
Speaker B:According to the state, he's killed six people, but by actual count it's been nine.
Speaker B:And Tommy is kind of like scared, but then he tries to hit Kane and that doesn't go well.
Speaker B:So Cain stops him and uses some fancy cane power to control his arm.
Speaker B:And then he's like, oh, am I gonna punish you or I'm gonna save you, I'm gonna do both.
Speaker B:And then boops him and they disappear.
Speaker A:Well, before he does that, he also takes out a giant fucking knife.
Speaker A:And it is a big fuck off knife.
Speaker A:And he stabs him in the stomach.
Speaker B:So he boop stabs he.
Speaker A:Yeah, boops he babs him.
Speaker A:Boobs stupy.
Speaker A:He stoops him.
Speaker B:Stoops him.
Speaker A:Anyways, that knife is ridiculous.
Speaker B:It's a staboo.
Speaker B:So anyways, yeah, so it's a big old.
Speaker B:Is that a bowie knife or something?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Actually I think there is one of those in my mom's house that was like from the Alamo thing that my dad or my brother bought at like an auction.
Speaker A:And it looks like a sword and like what the hell do I do with this?
Speaker A:Now that they.
Speaker A:My, you know, the men folk of my family who care about big ass knives.
Speaker A:I mean I've got some big ass knives, but there's a.
Speaker A:That's a too big of a.
Speaker B:You're not gonna put that in your purse and carry it around with.
Speaker A:It's not a good purse knife.
Speaker A:It's just not.
Speaker A:But so anyway, so then the Next we're gonna go is we are going to see the boys are pulling up to this prison and we finally learn where this prison is.
Speaker A:And shock and Sur fries.
Speaker A:It's in Texas.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:We don't have any prisons here.
Speaker A:I don't know anything about that.
Speaker A:So this is the Polinsky unit in West Livingston, Texas.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:I did not look up.
Speaker B:Is that a real place?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Do you know?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:I didn't look it up either.
Speaker A:It's not where there's a.
Speaker A:There is not a prison in any place called Polinsky.
Speaker A:I mean, but that's would be the unit.
Speaker A:I don't know where West Livingston is.
Speaker A:Most of our prisons are in Huntsville.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the biggest one.
Speaker B:And there's some other ones further out.
Speaker B:So I don't know.
Speaker B:I've never heard of.
Speaker B:Does exist as a city and it is not far from.
Speaker B:Oh, it's not far from Huntsville.
Speaker B:That's kind of.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:So Sam and the.
Speaker A:Sorry about that Sidetrack.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, valuable info somebody.
Speaker A:You were going to be looking it up if we didn't.
Speaker A:So we're just.
Speaker B:Yeah, we saved slightly east of Huntsville.
Speaker B:So Sam and Dean are discussing serial killers.
Speaker B:And I definitely can relate to Dean in this conversation because Sam is like, no, like rattling off serial killer facts and he's like, yeah, it's a hobby.
Speaker B:It's, you know, true crime.
Speaker B:And Dean is like, wtf?
Speaker B:This is a lot.
Speaker A:Well, also I think there is.
Speaker A: This was true crime in: Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like there's a true crime cruise that's about to happen.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so this is pre.
Speaker A:Podcast or like you.
Speaker A:We've always.
Speaker A:We had podcasts and they just weren't as people.
Speaker A:They weren't as well known.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They weren't common to be this much.
Speaker A:Of a nerd about serial killers.
Speaker A:And that was the original true crime for this era.
Speaker A:You know, because true crime has been around since there was human beings.
Speaker A:We just people like this, you know, like the first like all newsletters are.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Murder mysteries, all that.
Speaker B:Technically, if it was a Billy's based in truth, it's a true crime.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And just people are fascinated as a species, we are fascinated with murder and violence because it's what affects our society.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker A:But to know like serial killer stats, that is very specific.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But I also think these are very basic.
Speaker A:Like who doesn't know that Jeffrey Dahmer killed 17 people.
Speaker A:Come on.
Speaker B:Sure, Sure.
Speaker B:I knew that off the top of my head too, definitely.
Speaker B:So they.
Speaker B:They're saying that they're with the inspector general, and so that's why they're there to meet with the warden.
Speaker B:And they get let right on in.
Speaker B:And we definitely get an immediate shot of a.
Speaker B:A guard on horseback, because of course we do.
Speaker B:Because they're at a president in Texas.
Speaker B:So they go.
Speaker B:Or they go in and they're meeting up with the warden and they discuss.
Speaker B:This is Sammy Toliver.
Speaker B:He was convicted of six murders in 09, and he escaped a locked cell on death row.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And when they meet the warden, the warden's like, hey, good luck finding anything out of TDCJ compliance.
Speaker B:And I just want to give a gold star to the writers for making that reference, because that is Texas Department of Criminal justice and that is actual terminology.
Speaker B:And yay.
Speaker B:I was impressed.
Speaker B:Not because they had to include it or get it wrong, just because a lot of times it would be lazy.
Speaker B:It'd be very easy to not include.
Speaker B:So that's my compliment.
Speaker B:Compliments to the writers.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:But yeah.
Speaker B:So Sam's gonna go talk to the warden so Dean can inspect the cell with the EMF reader and everything else.
Speaker B:The warden's super defensive, though, because he's like, look, everything's on the fucking up and up here.
Speaker B:And I don't blame him offensive because he's sure as gonna get blamed no matter what, because everybody knows that you can't just disappear out of a cell.
Speaker B:And he's gonna go show Sam and Dean the security footage, including where you can see the silhouette of Kane.
Speaker B:And Dean recognizes him immediately.
Speaker A:He's like, yes, I know that beard.
Speaker A:No one else has this beard silhouette but Kane.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:So there we go.
Speaker B:They move along.
Speaker B:And we get a phone call where we see a cell phone ringing.
Speaker B:It's Dean trying to call Castiel.
Speaker B:And Cass has a demon tied up, and he is torturing or trapping this demon to try to track down Kane.
Speaker B:And he's like, but I don't know where Kane is.
Speaker B:We're stay away from each other.
Speaker B:Then finally he's like, no, I've actually seen him.
Speaker B:He's a county over.
Speaker B:I don't really know why.
Speaker B:That's all I know.
Speaker B:And then Castiel kills this demon.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is, you know, you kind of think he was going to.
Speaker A:And then he just, like, weird.
Speaker A:He just pops him.
Speaker A:So weird.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Cass is just over demons and just killing them.
Speaker A:So we're gonna Go from there.
Speaker A:And then we're gonna go down to hell.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Crowley and his court are listening to the grievances of a crossroad demon who is upset about not getting credit for his soul collection.
Speaker B:Which, I mean, you know, sometimes you have to just ask for what you.
Speaker B:What you need.
Speaker B:But Rowena is unimpressed with this entire presentation and interrupts the court because she just doesn't think that what Crowley is doing is what she would do.
Speaker B:So she suggests that they split the baby.
Speaker B:And she means literally cutting this demon in half, which I don't really understand how that solves what he's asking for.
Speaker B:But really, she's just suggesting we kill this motherfucker.
Speaker B:At the end of the day, she's not really suggesting any kind of a solution.
Speaker B:So that's fun, but there we go.
Speaker B:She wants to do this as a reminder to others to not whine, because whiners beget whiners.
Speaker B:And that's why she would never give Crowley sweets when he was a kid.
Speaker A:Because he was a chunky child.
Speaker A:A bit of a bloater.
Speaker A:And also, you know, like I was saying earlier about the writer and Rowena's dialogue, you'll see that she has a lot of alliteration in this.
Speaker A:And so when she's talking about splitting the baby, she, you know, calls.
Speaker A:She calls a demon a pulling, pathetic, greed grubbing git.
Speaker A:And it's just like, there's so much alliteration this whole episode.
Speaker A:It's so great.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So Crowley's like, sure, we'll do what she says and goes with it.
Speaker B:And this demon, like, does not know what the just happened.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Sam and Dean are now at a food truck, and Dean is getting papusas.
Speaker B:And that sounds delicious.
Speaker A:It does.
Speaker B:But they're upset because Castiel is not answering their calls.
Speaker B:And Sam is learning about Tommy to try to figure out why Kane might have gone after him.
Speaker B:But they think they also have figured out that Tommy's dad has gone missing.
Speaker B:At this time, though, Cass calls back, and he is in Illinois.
Speaker B:And they're like, hey, here's what happened with this dude in prison.
Speaker B:What are you up to?
Speaker B:And Cassiel's like, yeah, I know about this guy Tommy, by the way.
Speaker B:He's dead.
Speaker B:Because he has one of Tommy's sneakers in his hand.
Speaker A:He has a shoe.
Speaker B:He has a shoe.
Speaker B:And Cassio, we see, is standing in the middle of a makeshift cemetery in the middle of a forest.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But my question is.
Speaker A:All right, so if.
Speaker A:If the remains in this were dug up by someone.
Speaker A:Like, I think the situation does get cleared up by this.
Speaker A:But how would you explain Tommy's bones being corpse going from.
Speaker A:I guess maybe he escaped and then he died.
Speaker A:There would be the thing.
Speaker A:Like, it'd just be a very hard thing to explain.
Speaker B:It's real weird.
Speaker B:And then like, there's this whole, like, field of dead bodies.
Speaker B:And like, it's just very odd.
Speaker B:I'm very confused.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But we've had that before in the show.
Speaker A:They like a field of corpses, so.
Speaker B:Yeah, true.
Speaker B:Nobody asks a lot of questions.
Speaker A:You know, all the corpses go in a field.
Speaker A:So while he's in the field of corpses, or Zaddy shows up and he's just so attractive.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Kane's there and so Cass is like, gotta go, bye.
Speaker B:Because he's gonna go talk to Kane.
Speaker B:And Castiel's like, hey, Kane, what are you doing?
Speaker B:And he's, what's up?
Speaker B:And Kane's like, I am cleaning up the mess that I created.
Speaker B:I've got.
Speaker B:It's not just my taste back for killing.
Speaker B:And this isn't just a massacre, but this is my genocide.
Speaker B:Because I'm targeting killers, fighters and thieves.
Speaker B:I'm killing off my bloodline.
Speaker B:Calling 1 out of 10.
Speaker A:Well, no, he's not calling 1 out of 10.
Speaker A:What he meant about the 1 out of 10 was that means like 1 out of 10 humanity wise.
Speaker A:Because what Cass was saying is that because Cain was descended from Adam and Eve, right?
Speaker A:If he is killing off his bloodline.
Speaker B:That'S a lot of population.
Speaker A:That's a lot of people.
Speaker A:That's 10 of humanity is what.
Speaker A:So Cain's not picking 1 out of 10 of his bloodline.
Speaker A:He's killing all of his bloodline.
Speaker A:It's 10% of people.
Speaker B:So it's one out of 10 of everybody?
Speaker B:Yes, that's what I was saying.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So he's killing 1 out of 10 of people.
Speaker A:That seems.
Speaker A:It's a lot of people.
Speaker B:A lot of people.
Speaker B:And so he's gonna be like, hey, by the way, how's Dean doing these days?
Speaker B:I heard he took Abaddon down.
Speaker B:Figure he's not doing very well, though.
Speaker B:And Castiel's like, what the.
Speaker B:I just need the cure for the Mark.
Speaker B:And Kane's like, what the are you talking about?
Speaker B:Of course there's not one.
Speaker A:Look at me.
Speaker A:I'm here.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But I will take care of Deep for you.
Speaker B:And he poofs out.
Speaker A:Out.
Speaker B:Poofs out.
Speaker A:He does.
Speaker A:He poofs away.
Speaker A:And we go back down to hell, where Rowena has had a wee idea about the high ranking member of the Grand Coven.
Speaker A:Olivet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So she wants Crowley to help her.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he's like, yeah, the nice job on this long con.
Speaker B:That's what you wanted all along, obviously.
Speaker B:And she's like, oh, of course.
Speaker B:I was manipulating you.
Speaker B:Duh.
Speaker B:That's what we do.
Speaker B:You do it too.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:But also, we had fun today.
Speaker B:Let's do this.
Speaker B:Let's go to the real world for a little bit and take care of this.
Speaker B:This witch.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And Crowley just walks away.
Speaker A:So we don't know if he's down with his plan or not.
Speaker A:So we go from there back to the bunker.
Speaker B:That had to be a drive, right?
Speaker A:So we got from Texas to the bunker really fast.
Speaker B:Anyways.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they're like, oh, we figured out that Kane probably is wiping out families.
Speaker B:Now we also know that Tommy has an estrang estranged son in Ohio who's 12, who's posting on social media 10 years ago.
Speaker B:What, the kid?
Speaker B:Where's your mom?
Speaker B:Anyways, so Dean's like, well, now we gotta go save this kid because this kid's in danger.
Speaker B:And Sam kind of paused him.
Speaker B:He's like, what?
Speaker B:What are we gonna go do?
Speaker B:We're gonna go to save this kid from Kane.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, well, I'm just gonna kill Kane.
Speaker A:But I'm also like, sam, why are you reluctant?
Speaker A:Like, do you want to let the child die?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's all weird.
Speaker B:I don't know how I feel.
Speaker B:This whole exchange is odd.
Speaker B:Now I get these calling out that Dean's going out Hop Cox.
Speaker B:But at the same time, like, 12 year old child, like, well, don't go down.
Speaker B:Don't get mad that he's going half go, hey, let's make our plan so we can go do the thing.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:It's really weird.
Speaker B:So, yeah, they go pack up guns.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Also, yeah, so one, they're loading up a gun bag.
Speaker A:And we need to talk about go bags because this is ridiculous.
Speaker A:Every time they go, they have to go.
Speaker A:But they're loading a gun.
Speaker A:They have to the shots.
Speaker A:Why didn't you have different go bags or like different scenarios?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You can have some that have like different types of weapons things in there.
Speaker A:But this is taking too much time.
Speaker A:You don't have to do this every time.
Speaker A:This is ridiculous.
Speaker B:That's very, very good point and very reasonable.
Speaker B:I think at this point we should have that taken care of.
Speaker B:We have various Go bags just grab and go.
Speaker B:You need to rotate things periodically.
Speaker B:That's fine.
Speaker B:That makes sense.
Speaker A:That's what you do with a go bag.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You can't.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:When things come about it, you refill it.
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:But no.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Anyway, so Dean is talking to Sam about how Cain told him this day would come.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Castiel is there, too.
Speaker B:And listening to Dean talk about how Cain resisted the Mark for so long.
Speaker B:And then Dean kicked things up with the blade.
Speaker B:And so now.
Speaker B:And he knows that there's only one thing that can kill Cain, and that is odt.
Speaker A:Old donkey teeth is back.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:And Cassiel's like, yeah, you're right.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, wait, what?
Speaker B:I don't like this.
Speaker B:Because I'm afraid Dean's never gonna come back from this.
Speaker B:Wielding ODT again.
Speaker B:And wielding it against Kane, which is a reasonable concern.
Speaker A:And Dean knows, and he grumbles and he says, I know.
Speaker A:And then he says, I am Batman.
Speaker A:He didn't.
Speaker A:But I thought he was about to.
Speaker A:He is Batman.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:So they go from the bunker back down to hell.
Speaker A:And Rowena has a plan.
Speaker B:She is war planning against the Grand Kevin witch.
Speaker B:She's ready.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:And she's talking about how she's ready.
Speaker B:She's gonna use these, get past security and all the things.
Speaker B:And currently looks kind of unimpressed.
Speaker B:I think that was a little rude.
Speaker A:Yeah, but she's so, like.
Speaker A:She's pretty good.
Speaker A:She's like.
Speaker A:She's got this rune of amaranth, and that's gonna, like, throw him off.
Speaker A:It's illusion work.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But then Dean calls Crowley, AKA not.
Speaker B:Moose, and he's like, btw, Kane's back and I need the blade because it's real dark.
Speaker B:And there's a kill list.
Speaker B:And you're on it, too, Crowley.
Speaker B:So give me the location of odt.
Speaker A:I'll text you the location in my signal chat.
Speaker A:So Rowena is talking about the nasty spell.
Speaker A:She has to finish off all of that.
Speaker A:But now she has to wait.
Speaker A:Wait.
Speaker A:And she's not happy about that.
Speaker B:Not happy.
Speaker B:So Chris Crowley's gonna get ODT out.
Speaker B:And Rowena's like, what the.
Speaker B:You're gonna listen to give that to the Winchester.
Speaker B:That is that you're helping them out.
Speaker A:They're not your friends.
Speaker A:They're ruining your reputation.
Speaker A:Stop helping the Winchesters.
Speaker B:And he's like, I have a bigger concern than that.
Speaker B:So shall up.
Speaker A:So he runs off to wherever this child is.
Speaker A:I couldn't remember when I wrote these notes.
Speaker B:Ohio.
Speaker A:Ohio.
Speaker A:I was like, ohio?
Speaker A:Or like, yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So Sam and Dean are there, and Cassa is.
Speaker A:The kid is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Cass are there.
Speaker A:And Cass says that the kid is out in the barn playing with the basketball.
Speaker B:It's a real weird setup with this, like, double barn with a basketball hoop in it.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Maybe that's an Ohio thing.
Speaker A:Cold maybe.
Speaker B:I guess.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, what the.
Speaker B:Are we using this kid as bait for Kane now?
Speaker B:I feel like that's.
Speaker B:It's right.
Speaker B:That he's slightly distraught about this now.
Speaker A:It was a shitty thing to do.
Speaker B:To a child, but also, what are the options?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And now, yeah, you know, Crowley's not thrilled with his plan overall because he's like, I don't really trust Dean with the blade because might kill Crowley.
Speaker B:Like, I don't know.
Speaker B:He's like, don't.
Speaker A:And just how he is with it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker B:So there we get them watching the kid playing basketball.
Speaker B:Sam and Dean discuss the plan that they need to capture Kane.
Speaker B:And then Crowley will give the Blade to Dean to kill him.
Speaker B:But, yeah, And Dean is very upset.
Speaker B:And he tells Sam that he meant what he said about how he is going to go down swinging to beat this.
Speaker B:He just didn't realize it would be so soon.
Speaker B:And he's scared.
Speaker A:Scared Dean Winchester, frightened little boy.
Speaker B:That's upsetting.
Speaker A:That is upsetting.
Speaker A:So we've got frightened little boy Dean Winchester, then real frightened little boy who is listening to his headphones and gets startled.
Speaker A:And there is Kane.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And right as Kane approaches this young man.
Speaker B:Young man, little boy.
Speaker B:Castiel intervenes and tries.
Speaker A:He comes to this kidney.
Speaker A:He's like, I'm here to kill you.
Speaker A:And then he pulls out his big off knife.
Speaker A:And if I was that child, I would have myself.
Speaker A:Like, that is terrifying.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is upsetting.
Speaker B:Very upsetting.
Speaker B:And then Castiel, like, shows up and is like, it's okay, kid.
Speaker B:I'll protect you.
Speaker B:And so there's other rando dudes there now trying to, like, Jedi mind trick, blast this guy with a knife and fails.
Speaker B:Luckily, the kid runs off at this point because Kane manages to fling Castiel's.
Speaker A:Blade away quite easily and clap, cast himself, right?
Speaker A:So he can fling Cass around.
Speaker A:So then Sam comes in and he shuts the door of the barn.
Speaker A:But then they remember that Kane can teleport, so that doesn't matter.
Speaker A:So there he is, so weird.
Speaker B:He's, like, holding this door, like, shut.
Speaker B:And I'm like, this just flung an angel.
Speaker B:And Sam's gonna hold the door closed.
Speaker A:He's gonna hold the door closed.
Speaker A:So Kane just, you know, pops in there, because that's what he does.
Speaker A:And then Austin begs, and then Kane stabs him.
Speaker A:But it's an illusion.
Speaker B:All an illusion, because the real Austin is long gone.
Speaker B:And Kane knows that this is 18th century magic.
Speaker A:And the rune of Amaranth, which was what Rowena was talking about earlier with Crowley.
Speaker A:So Crowley picked that little piece up from his mom and used.
Speaker A:Used it on Kane.
Speaker B:Yeah, so.
Speaker B:And he also.
Speaker B:Kane knows that he's in a trap because they use.
Speaker B:They also, like, strategically make him stroll across the floor.
Speaker B:And so now, like, a whale song.
Speaker A:Supposed to be a guitar, but whatever, he's in the.
Speaker B:He's in the devil's trap now.
Speaker A:Hell.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But apparently that won't hold him for long, so it's like a temporary trap.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:Well, because he's a knight of Hell and he's Kane, and he's just too strong for a double strap.
Speaker A:The double strap doesn't work for everybody.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, it makes sense.
Speaker B:It would just seem like it was like.
Speaker A:Especially because it's from the case element and it's made up.
Speaker A:Anyways, so.
Speaker A:Dan.
Speaker A:Dan.
Speaker A:Dean thinks Sam in the ring is a liability and he needs them to take out whatever comes out, whatever that is.
Speaker A:And Crowley is like, I am here for that.
Speaker A:I will.
Speaker A:I will kill you, Dean.
Speaker A:And he's just like, here's odt.
Speaker B:Yeah, go for it.
Speaker B:He's just sending him on.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, no, no, I got this.
Speaker B:I'm going in.
Speaker B:And once he gets in there, Kane starts monologuing, as we expect, because Kane's a bad guy.
Speaker B:And that's what they do.
Speaker B:So we got our monologue about what he thinks Dean is there to say.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, no, I'm not really here to say anything anymore.
Speaker B:And Kane's like, oh, you know, you should be so clear sighted now.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:Yes, I.
Speaker B:You know, I'm.
Speaker B:My deal.
Speaker B:I made my deal with Lucifer.
Speaker B:I left the stain on this earth with this.
Speaker A:No, he released a saying upon the earth because that is grosser.
Speaker A:And it's much grosser to release your stain upon the earth.
Speaker B:He released his stain into this tainted.
Speaker A:Bloodline, and now we have tainted blood.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Kane is really into this, right?
Speaker A:And so he's like, not all killers are my descendants, and not all my descendants are killers, but enough are.
Speaker A:And wouldn't the earth be better with.
Speaker A:With Fever, Tommies, Leon.
Speaker B:And use.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:And use the word extinguish.
Speaker A:Extinguish.
Speaker A:So let's talk about genetics and crime.
Speaker A:So can.
Speaker A:Can there really be tainted blood?
Speaker B:We.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's lore.
Speaker A:So I mean genetics and crime, nature versus nurture.
Speaker A:That is probably one of the longest running debates around.
Speaker A:Are some people more genetically disposed to commit crime?
Speaker A:Well, maybe, but it kind of depends.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So there is the thing that we has been termed the crime gene.
Speaker A:And there is a myth that one gene causes crime, sometimes perpetuated by shows like Riverdale, where Betty learned that she had inherited the serial killer gene.
Speaker A:That was for you, Diana.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker A:So realistically, multiple genes likely interact.
Speaker A:Interact to create this risk of someone being a criminal.
Speaker A:And those are combined with environmental, societal, health and other factors.
Speaker A:But there is the maoag.
Speaker A:So that is what they were talking about in Riverdale along with another gene we'll talk about for a little bit.
Speaker A:But this is the main one and that's the one that's traditionally called the warrior gene.
Speaker A:And it has been historically associated with aggression and violence.
Speaker A:And while everyone has this gene, certain variants have been linked to criminal behavior.
Speaker A: family that was published in: Speaker A: That began in: Speaker A:One had tried to rape his sister.
Speaker A:Another had tried to run his boss down with the car.
Speaker A:A third had forced his sisters who undressed at knife point.
Speaker A:I don't know what they have with their sisters, but it's growing house.
Speaker A: ced their family tree back to: Speaker A:And he identified nine other men with some sort of violent mental debility.
Speaker A:Then the geneticist Han Bruner and his colleagues determined that all of these men in that family suffered a defect on the X chromosome.
Speaker A:The defect crippling the enzyme monoamine oxidase.
Speaker A:Oxidase, sure.
Speaker A:Which breaks down neurotransmitters like noradrenaline, adrenaline, adrenaline, serotonin and dopamine, helping to regulate mood and behaviors.
Speaker A:So it is thought when there is not enough of this enzyme to break down the neurotransmitters, the neurotransmitters will then accumulate.
Speaker A:And while you would think that a bunch of dopamine or serotonin or these other things would make you feel great, it can instead lead to hostility or even homicidal tendencies.
Speaker A:This gene, though, is located on the X chromosome, so women can carry two copies, but those with the weaker chrome, weaker Y chromosome.
Speaker A:Just kidding.
Speaker A:So those.
Speaker A:Those.
Speaker A:They can only have one copy.
Speaker A:That would be men.
Speaker A:So studies have found that low MAOA expression causes women to be happier, which is the opposite of what they observed in men.
Speaker A:But then there's another study where females with the high activity MAO aging were found to be more aggressive.
Speaker A:Some studies has often found that the low MAOA expression causes.
Speaker A:Okay, I just did that one.
Speaker A:And then my past DNA stuff says that I am most likely to have the high expression.
Speaker A:So in that study, though, it also said that the high expression for women can cause mood disorders and panic.
Speaker A:Panic attacks.
Speaker A:So it can either make you happy or make you miserable and have a lot of anxiety or they just don't know because science is so.
Speaker A: There was also a: Speaker A:And that at least about 5 to 10% of all severe violent crime in Finland is attributable to the aforementioned MAOA and CDH13 genotypes, which I don't think is enough.
Speaker A:This is my problem.
Speaker A:I don't have enough.
Speaker A:I don't think that's a causation.
Speaker A:That's not a lot.
Speaker A:5 to 10%.
Speaker A:Like, that's just.
Speaker A:That, to me, that just seems amazing.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:That just seems.
Speaker A:I don't think there's a causation for that.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:But it also.
Speaker B:Besides like that, that's a low correlative number.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:That's what I feel like.
Speaker A:I feel like a lot of these samples are just.
Speaker A:You did.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You sounded very smart when you say that.
Speaker A:And beyond just like kind of that sample size problem, there also is this whole nurture part of the nature of.
Speaker A:You just can't rule that out.
Speaker A:Research and common sense show that childhood abuse can lead to antisocial behavior.
Speaker A: A: Speaker A:That sounds like a fun journal.
Speaker A:Revealed that 26% of serial killers were sexually abused as children, 36% were physically abused, and 50% were psychologically abused.
Speaker A:But that can't always necessarily be the case.
Speaker A:It's not 100%.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So there are people like Ted Bundy who killed.
Speaker A:How many people did he kill?
Speaker A:What is his stats, Diana?
Speaker B:No idea.
Speaker A:It's around 100.
Speaker A:He just.
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker A:He killed a lot of people.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:Dislike characteristics.
Speaker B:There was.
Speaker A:We're not getting the money.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:He displayed characteristics of the low MAO variant because he had a pretty.
Speaker A:Like, his childhood was pretty stable, and he was just kind of like, was perceived as a normal person until a girl broke his heart.
Speaker A:All right, so, yeah, then there's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A: So a: Speaker A:In New Zealand showed no direct connection between lower MAO A levels and aggression, but there was a link between childhood abuse and aggression.
Speaker A:And of course, there was always a link between traumatic brain injuries and serial killers.
Speaker A:Ed Gein, Gary Hadnick, Richard Ramirez, Henry Lee Lucas, David Berkowitz, Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, John Wayne Gacy, all of them had TBIs.
Speaker A:Like, it's a ridiculous amount having the.
Speaker B:Guy hit in the head.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But we also can't discount the role epigenetic changes play in creating violent offenders.
Speaker A:Epigenetics refers to the study of changes in gene expression that occur without a change in DNA sequence and can be influenced by environmental factors like stress, diet, exposure to toxins like lead.
Speaker A: y serial killers in LA in the: Speaker A:But because of, like, oh, it's like, I just don't think there's.
Speaker A:I don't know if this is, like, there's.
Speaker A:If you can be conclusive about any of this, Right.
Speaker A:I feel like serial killers are such a small.
Speaker A:Like, if you're especially talking about serial killers, right.
Speaker A:Like, that's such a small, like, portion of the population.
Speaker A:And even if you're going about, you know, criminals themselves, that's still such a small portion of the.
Speaker A:Of the population.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And what.
Speaker A:How do you do this stuff, like, always, how do you do scientific studies about behavior?
Speaker A:And also, I just feel like there's too many.
Speaker A:Too many factors that can go into this.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:Even if you do, like, they do a lot of twin studies and a lot of adoption studies.
Speaker A:Studies, Right.
Speaker A:So it'll be like.
Speaker A:But even then, I think there's just too many factors.
Speaker A:Like, there's just no.
Speaker A:Like, how do you.
Speaker B:You cannot control for all the variables of place.
Speaker A:There's just no way you can.
Speaker A:I mean, beyond, like, just the hereditary.
Speaker A:Like, every person's family is going to be different.
Speaker A:Like how.
Speaker B:Like, the perception of how they're treated, their perception of their experience, how what they actually experience is not never going to be identical.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, my.
Speaker A:Like, every house is going to have a different amount of lead.
Speaker A:Every, you know, like.
Speaker A:Like some kid's gonna eat some, you know, Eat some paint.
Speaker A:Some kid's gonna get hit in the head with, you know, a seesaw, and he's gonna become Jeffrey Dahmer.
Speaker A:But the other kid that got hit in the seesaw, that became a, you know, Nobel Peace Prize winner, you know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, you know, of course I went down and, like, looked for all these markers in my stuff.
Speaker A:So most of the MAO variants are not really.
Speaker A:You can't really test them with things like 23andMe and Ancestry.
Speaker A:Like, those aren't really markers are looking for.
Speaker A:You can take that data and then make some.
Speaker A:Some correlations from it, which is how I get to the.
Speaker A:I likely have the low one.
Speaker A:And that also has a lot of things that are related.
Speaker A:Like CDH 13 is also related to ADHD and a lot of other, like, mood disorders.
Speaker A:So likely.
Speaker A:But that is not a marker of a 23.
Speaker A:And me tested for like, So I can't see if that's that particular marker is something I have.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker A:I mean, I obviously, I.
Speaker A:I love genetics.
Speaker A:I think it's fascinating.
Speaker A:I think epigenetics is super fascinating too, thinking about how we change our DNA.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, so if you think about this from a hereditary standpoint, like the kind of going back to the cane's line of murderers, Right.
Speaker A:Would that be something that could be inherited?
Speaker A:Like, so, like, some of the last point, like, some of the studies would be like, I had an adopted child.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And they would be comparing dots, like adopted children of people, like kids who were born to incarcerated mothers and those who were born to mothers who were not in prison.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But I'm like.
Speaker A:And they're like, well, the ones who were born to mothers in prison were more likely to be criminals.
Speaker A:But I also think, well, if your mom was already in prison, she's probably not coming from a good socioeconomic background.
Speaker A:So aren't there's a lot of other factors besides the fact that she's your mom that are influencing whether or not you become an offender?
Speaker A:Like, like, again, it just goes into.
Speaker A:There's too many variables.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or is it just your emotional reaction to what happened?
Speaker B:Or is it something, you know, genetic, or is it socioeconomics?
Speaker B:Or is it something else?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or is like, the, you know, beyond, like, the genetics, or is it just learned family behaviors?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, are some families beyond, Like, I know we can pass down some social, like, you know, inherited trauma is a thing, but I mean, could have just all of Kane's family just been.
Speaker B:I do live by the.
Speaker B:Generally, then this is not my non scientific rule of that generally 10% of the population are like, I don't care.
Speaker B:I don't care what your job is, your socioeconomic background, your race, your religion, your anything else.
Speaker B:I think about 10% of the pop.
Speaker B:I like think it's less than that because I'm.
Speaker A:Is that, is it a genetic thing or is it an environmental thing?
Speaker A:What makes you an that or evil.
Speaker B:Or whatever just like, like super up.
Speaker B:I mean it's like.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that's also why it's fascinating too.
Speaker A:And why I, I mean it works out that way.
Speaker A:Well, you know, and ripping it apart like for yourself too, right?
Speaker A:You're like, this is am.
Speaker A:You know, because you have.
Speaker A:But we also know like it's free will, right?
Speaker A:And that's the whole purpose of the supernatural show is we're questioning free will.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:I think we're gonna bring this all back now.
Speaker A:So that's what the cane murderous line and this kind of supernatural world of free will is what we're really talking about here, I think.
Speaker A:Which is why this, you know, the whole bark of Kane becomes like super fascinating here too, right?
Speaker B:Because Kane's like, well this there is no.
Speaker B:He's basically talking about predetermination.
Speaker B:These people are predetermined to potentially be murderers.
Speaker B:And like you, I'm fighting this.
Speaker B:I am going to pick my.
Speaker B:I'm going to fight with my will.
Speaker A:Well, I think Kane also didn't care those who didn't cut.
Speaker A:Like, you know, it's like, well, you had a chance.
Speaker A:Like there was a 50% chance that you would become a murderer.
Speaker A:So because of.
Speaker A:And that's, you know, it's a pretty, you know, talk.
Speaker A:It's a minority report thing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So there is if you, you know.
Speaker A:Well, this is why, you know, we don't.
Speaker A:This is why I don't like, we don't like eugenics or other predictive crime.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Yeah, because you can't, you can't murder somebody because there's a 50 chance they will become bad.
Speaker A:Because free will does exist.
Speaker A:Or at least we believe.
Speaker A:Believe it.
Speaker A:So yeah, we're team Free Will.
Speaker A:That is team Free Will.
Speaker A:Team Free Will.
Speaker A:So back to this kid.
Speaker A:And now Kane's asking about the kid and he wants to know how Dean feels holding his ugly ass knife.
Speaker B:And kid could go either way.
Speaker B:And Dean views the knife as a means to an end.
Speaker A:Do it, do it, do it.
Speaker A:Dum dum dum.
Speaker A:And then they fight.
Speaker A:And Kane is very good at dodging and starts.
Speaker B:He's very good at dodging.
Speaker B:And then starts whooping on Dean pretty hard.
Speaker A:Karate chop.
Speaker B:But then he's like, wait a minute.
Speaker B:Are you holding back?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:He says that with a magnificent sweep of his hair.
Speaker A:He goes, are you holding back?
Speaker A:And then he puts his hands in his hair and he fluffs it behind him and it flows like, around his hair and a magnificent mane.
Speaker A:And then Kane taunts him.
Speaker B:I can't decide if I love or hate.
Speaker B:Hate his hair in this.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Especially I love it when Rob Benedict.
Speaker A:Rob Benedict put it on as a parody faking it of him.
Speaker A:That was also hilarious.
Speaker A:So we also get more alliteration here because while Kane is taunting him, he says, there is no resisting the Mark or the Blade, only remission and relapse, which is very depressing.
Speaker B:Remission and relapse.
Speaker B:I think somebody told me that when I tried to quit smoking the first time.
Speaker A:That's positive.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I feel like that is like the worst like.
Speaker A:Like AA motto.
Speaker A:There's no resisting.
Speaker A:There's only remission.
Speaker B:I wrote it down too, because I was like, damn, that's harsh.
Speaker B:And Kane's like, look, you know, you.
Speaker B:This is all m.
Speaker B:You call.
Speaker B:He tells Dean that this.
Speaker B:That he misunderstood Cassiel calls Cassiel his pet angel.
Speaker B:And that Dean is just, you know, overtaken with reckless bravado.
Speaker B:He knew that Dean would come for him.
Speaker B:He knew he would bring the Blade.
Speaker B:And it's the one thing he wants.
Speaker A:Wants.
Speaker B:And he Jedi mind tricks the ODT to his hand.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And so this was all a play.
Speaker A:Dean was played this whole time because what Kane really wanted was to get his hands on odt.
Speaker A:And once it is in his hands, he just orgasms away.
Speaker A:They all do.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:I don't know what the power the thing has.
Speaker A:Donkey teeth just like, makes you go.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And like, Kane keeps talking while he air chokes Dean about how he cares for him.
Speaker B:This is a favor.
Speaker B:And I'm saving you from your fate.
Speaker B:Because he's living Kane's life in reverse.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:He asked him, have you never mused upon the fact that you were living my life in reverse?
Speaker A:And I don't think Dean Winchester has ever mused once in his life.
Speaker A:I think he has wallowed.
Speaker A:He's pondered, he's contemplated.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker B:He's not amuser.
Speaker A:He's never used.
Speaker B:Not a muser.
Speaker B:Not a muser.
Speaker B:So Kane tells Dean that Dean's story will end by killing his brother.
Speaker A:So that's a huge bomb.
Speaker A:That just got dropped.
Speaker B:He's like, first, you're gonna kill Crowley.
Speaker B:You'll have mixed feelings about that, but you'll do it for reasons.
Speaker B:And it's fine.
Speaker B:Then you're gonna kill Castiel.
Speaker B:And that's going to be really upsetting.
Speaker B:And it's gonna be hurtful.
Speaker B:You're gonna be hurt.
Speaker B:Hurt, but that's whatever.
Speaker B:Then comes the murder.
Speaker B:You'll never survive.
Speaker A:It's gonna turn you savage.
Speaker A:You're gonna kill me, Brother Sam and all the sands in between.
Speaker A:His destiny is displayed.
Speaker B:But then he says, you're welcome, my son.
Speaker B:And he's gonna stab Dean.
Speaker B:But Dean grabs the knife off of Cain's waistband and cut.
Speaker B:Cuts off Kane's hand.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Maybe don't have a big ass knife.
Speaker A:That's what happens when you carry around a big ass knife.
Speaker A:Kane.
Speaker A:Someone cuts off your hand.
Speaker B:Kane is very, like.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I mean, I feel like I would be upset if someone cut my hand off.
Speaker B:But I feel like Kane's supposed to be like this big, bad, like, night of hell.
Speaker B:And he kind of like.
Speaker B:Like, falls over with his.
Speaker A:Well, he lost his hand.
Speaker A:I mean, it's gotta be surprising, you know, it's not me he's expecting, but.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And was I.
Speaker A:I missed my line about can't stop.
Speaker A:Won't stop.
Speaker B:Won't stop.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Kane.
Speaker A:Can't stop.
Speaker A:Won't stop.
Speaker A:Because Dean doesn't want to kill him.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And he is just like, I can't.
Speaker A:Your hair is too great.
Speaker B:And tell me I don't have to do this.
Speaker B:Your hair is so glorious.
Speaker A:That's what his subtext is.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:He's got like.
Speaker A:There's a whole lot of like.
Speaker A:Ackles has got a lot of, like, subs text going on his face.
Speaker A:I'm pretty sure that's what it is.
Speaker B:Is that what it is?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Your hair is magnificent.
Speaker B:And Kane's like, I'll never stop.
Speaker A:So he gets stabbed.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, we don't really show.
Speaker B:I mean, we show it, but, like, Dean, like, walks behind him and Kate and just dance.
Speaker B:Sits there kneeling, and he stabs him in the back.
Speaker B:I thought it was weird.
Speaker A:Yeah, you just let it happen.
Speaker A:Also, do you have to floss?
Speaker A:Odt.
Speaker B:Ew.
Speaker B:Ew.
Speaker A:Questions.
Speaker A:I wonder.
Speaker A:Then there's a bunch of thunder.
Speaker A:And yeah, we cut to Dean just, like, walking down the stairs, looking pretty shook.
Speaker A:Shook.
Speaker B:Shooketh.
Speaker B:As he goes to see Crowley, Cass and Sam.
Speaker B:And he's got two really bloody knives.
Speaker B:And he's all beat up and It's a sad fucking scene.
Speaker B:And Crowley really, really wants odt.
Speaker B:But Dean hands it to Cass Castiel.
Speaker B:And Crowley is pissed.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:You lied?
Speaker A:How dare you, Dean.
Speaker B:Not the first time today.
Speaker B:Because I to lied to you that you were on freaking Kane's list too.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:And then Dean collapses into Sam.
Speaker A:You did it.
Speaker A:A way to go, Dean.
Speaker A:So now we're gonna go back to hell?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Crowley finds Rowena and his pouring himself a drink.
Speaker B:And she is ready with her I told you sos and she has bags packed.
Speaker B:And she is.
Speaker A:And then the most adorable little carpet bags that like every witch on the show has.
Speaker A:And I don't know why witches get to have those bags, but I want them.
Speaker B:And she is.
Speaker B:He's like, stop manipulating me.
Speaker B:And she's like, no, that's that.
Speaker B:This is about pride.
Speaker B:And I was really proud to find you being the king of Hell all by yourself.
Speaker B:That was really cool.
Speaker B:But it breaks my heart to see what you've become being a bitch for the Winchesters.
Speaker A:Yeah, because you're a sad wee boy on the throne who will flop ass up every time the Winchesters call.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker A:Ouch.
Speaker B:And she leaves.
Speaker B:Burn.
Speaker A:And she leaves her bags when shake her bags.
Speaker B:So she didn't really leave then.
Speaker B:And then back at the bunker, Sam and Dean are in the kitchen.
Speaker B:And Sam tells Dean how proud he is and that you know, there's cause for hope here even without the cure.
Speaker B:And Castiels comes back.
Speaker B:He's like, yes, I.
Speaker B:I hid odt, so we should be all good.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker B:I'm gonna go sleep for four days now.
Speaker B:And walks out.
Speaker B:And Castiel's like, hey, Sam, how do you think Dean really is?
Speaker B:And Sam has read the situation very clearly and knows that Dean is in trouble.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And that's how we end.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Dean's faking being all right.
Speaker A:What a shock.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That never happened.
Speaker B:Never.
Speaker A:That seems so unlike him.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:Anyway, so you got.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:People who are in this episode.
Speaker C:Casting couch.
Speaker C:It's the casting couch.
Speaker C:Were they on that show that time with that guy?
Speaker B:Yeah, I do have some.
Speaker B:We don't have a huge cast in this episode though.
Speaker B:It's mostly people we already know.
Speaker B:But Austin Reynolds was played by Julian Hicks.
Speaker A:He was probably a grown up now.
Speaker B:He was a reenactor character reenactor in Hitler's Last Stand miniseries.
Speaker B:Tommy Toliver was played by Roman Bloom.
Speaker B:He's been in episodes of Flash and Real Detective.
Speaker B:Our prison guard was played by Simon Chin.
Speaker B:He's actually done a lot of stunt work, including on shows like Shogun and Peacemaker.
Speaker B:He's also been on episode of Fringe, X Files, Arrow, Fates, Motel, Lucifer, Altered Carbon, Killing Eve, Series of unfortunate events, iZombie, Siren, Charmed, Snowpiercer, Resident Alien, and Kung Fu.
Speaker B:He was the sound engineer in the movie Just Friends.
Speaker B:Like the role, not like he was Barry in Always Be My maybe and Elf Flobo in Noel.
Speaker B:Our warden, Skiff, was played by Keith Martin.
Speaker B:Gordy.
Speaker B: been in episodes of MacGyver,: Speaker B:He was had a CEO in the Watchmen and has done a lot of Hallmark.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Are you sad about Kane?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, good hair can't always last forever, you know.
Speaker B:Good hair can't always last forever.
Speaker A:No, but I mean, he had it.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It was literally.
Speaker B:He had it coming.
Speaker A:He had it coming.
Speaker A:But, I mean, why did he have to go and, like, start killing off all his family?
Speaker A:He went crazy.
Speaker A:And he didn't have to do that.
Speaker B:Like, he did.
Speaker B:He did.
Speaker B:So, I think that, you know, it's fair.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:But, I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think we get a lot of.
Speaker A:We get a lot of questions of, you know, nature versus nurture in this episode and really, you know, delving into Dean and Dean fighting the mark.
Speaker A:And you said, what does that mean?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Is can he have enough of himself in order to.
Speaker A:To fight the inevitable?
Speaker A:Like, is it only because the genetic.
Speaker B:Is it inevitable?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is it inevitable?
Speaker B:And is the mark, then, genetic that has been put on him?
Speaker B:Or is that the.
Speaker B:What's the other term that you use?
Speaker A:Epigenetic?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, because it would have changed, right?
Speaker A:So did, like.
Speaker A:Did all this stuff change that?
Speaker A:You know, but I.
Speaker A:The question, though, also is, are Sam and Dean also in that line?
Speaker A:Are they in.
Speaker A:Are they in that line of.
Speaker A:But then also, there are.
Speaker A:Then also.
Speaker A:I'm gonna say that a lot.
Speaker A:But there is also the.
Speaker A:The bombshell of you have to kill Sam.
Speaker B:Him.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which is.
Speaker A:It makes sense.
Speaker A:Kane.
Speaker A:Kane and Abel.
Speaker A:Right, but.
Speaker B:But does he have to?
Speaker B:Or is he just saying that that's the path that he's on and maybe he can fight it because Kane is.
Speaker B:Lives by predetermination and Dean lives by free will.
Speaker B:So maybe he doesn't have to.
Speaker A:No, but it's the whole point of.
Speaker A:Marc Kane was about killing your brother.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It's true.
Speaker A:So, I don't know.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:What happens?
Speaker A:Does Dean Winchester kill Sam Winchester?
Speaker B:At least not for five more years.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:We can come back to life, you.
Speaker B:Know, it would not be the first time, not be the first time someone has beat death on Supernatural.
Speaker A:Oh, poor Julian.
Speaker A:All right, so stop beating death.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think we'll end on that note.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Cheers, sir.
Speaker A:Cheers.
Speaker B:Devil's Trap podcast is a.
Speaker B:They don't get a production.
Speaker B:Meow.
Speaker C:Devil's Trap podcast is part of the Ship it Studios podcast network.
Speaker C:Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker C:You can follow us on Instagram at Devils Trapp podcast, Twitter DEVilstrap Pod or you can email us at DEVilstrapvilstrappodcast.com don't forget to subscribe, leave reviews and share with all your friends.
Speaker C:We're at all your favorite podcast outlets and deviltrap podcast.com I'm Babe.
Speaker C:Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
Speaker B:Going up to the spirit in the sky?
Speaker B:That's where I'm gonna go when I die?
Speaker B:When I die they lay me?
Speaker B:I'm gonna go to the place that.
