10:16 Paint It Black
AI suggested we title this episode "The Enigmatic Hamster Jewelry: A Unique Discussion" and that is a probably an accurate summary because we do spend an inordinate amount of time pondering jewelry for hamsters. We do talk about Season 10, Episode 16 "Paint It Black" and argue about whether or not Piero was an F boy. And then we do part 1 of the story of Rosaleen Norton, the Witch of King's Cross, focusing on her coven, the Goat Fold religion, and their practices.
Research Links
- The Conservatorium director and the witch
- edoc.site_pan-or-the-devil.pdf
- Rosaleen Norton | Special Collections, UON Library
- Nevill Drury - Articles - Rosaleen Norton's Kings Cross Coven
- 25 Famous Witches in History from Ancient to Modern Times
- Rosaleen Norton | Special Collections, UON Library
- Rosaleen Norton: Remembering the Witch of Kings Cross | Daily Telegraph
- Rosaleen Norton - Australia's Favourite Witch
- Covens and Groups – OCCULT WORLD
Transcript
On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast, we want to bring back Bric.
Speaker B:A brac, starting with Rowena's new line of hamster jewelry.
Speaker B:Let's do this.
Speaker A:Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Diana.
Speaker B:I'm Liz.
Speaker A:And we're Gonna Talk Season 10, Episode 16, Paint It Black.
Speaker B:Every time, it's gonna get stuck in my head.
Speaker B:And it's not even the song.
Speaker B:It's just the.
Speaker B:Like that little annoying guitar riff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That every time I hear the words just really what goes off in my head.
Speaker A:I do like the song.
Speaker A:So it doesn't really.
Speaker A:I haven't had that, though.
Speaker A:So this one.
Speaker A:I don't know why.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not the whole song.
Speaker B:It's just pretty much that one riff that's annoying.
Speaker B:And it's like cats.
Speaker B:It is cats.
Speaker B:Meow, meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow.
Speaker B:Sadly, the show is not about cats or cake.
Speaker B:AI still trying to figure that one out again.
Speaker B:So, yeah, what have you been up to?
Speaker A:I've gotten to see the wonderful Tanya Mother Trucker.
Speaker A:Tanya Mother Tucker.
Speaker A:Tanya Tucker.
Speaker A:I can't even say it right.
Speaker A:Tanya Tucker.
Speaker A:And she was put on a great show, in my humble opinion, along with Texas artist named Angel White.
Speaker A:It was opened for her super fun.
Speaker A:Had a little girls night to do that and did some family hangs and some car club hangs.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That's my excitement right now.
Speaker B:That sounds great.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:How about you?
Speaker B:Well, I would say I have had family hangs, but by family hangs, I mean I've been at my family's house cleaning out crap.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But I got my spring cleaning done before I was to say, before I got too hot.
Speaker B:It was 92 degrees today.
Speaker B:Like, I was like, oh, the cold front.
Speaker B:Like, it'll be 92 degrees.
Speaker B:So I got that done and I got part of my dental implant opened.
Speaker B:So what this means, our dear.
Speaker B:Our dear listeners, is when you get dental implants, there's a lot of they don't tell you about.
Speaker B:I know I've talked about my teeth a lot in the show before, but so part.
Speaker A:It's been a while, though.
Speaker B:It's been a while since I've had one.
Speaker B:So with this one, after they jam a screw into your mouth, they let that heal.
Speaker B:Then they go back and they cut it open, and so then it has to heal again.
Speaker B:Well, the dental office where I go to, which I went To.
Speaker B:Because they are.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:They do everything.
Speaker B:So I want.
Speaker B:I knew I was going to need dental surgery, so I went to a place that had almost stuff.
Speaker B:But the dental surgeon's schedule is limited, and so they shove a bunch of clients into one day.
Speaker B:So they try to make things as fast as possible.
Speaker B:They are also a singing office.
Speaker B:And by singing office, I mean every member of that staff takes great delight in singing along to whatever contemporary classic rock song is playing on their.
Speaker B:Their.
Speaker B:Their mixes.
Speaker B: s: Speaker B:Last time, time before link, 182.
Speaker B:This time I got Cranberry Zombie sung into my mouth.
Speaker B:And because they were so fast, this is what happened.
Speaker B:So doc comes in.
Speaker B:Hey, how you doing?
Speaker B:Long time.
Speaker B:Oh, your X ray looks fine.
Speaker B:Here's some topical gel.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Did that set.
Speaker B:No, he didn't ask me that.
Speaker B:He just shoved some topical gel in there, then took his giant ass.
Speaker B:Ass plunger full of novocaine and then just started thrusting it into my gums.
Speaker B:And, like, I'm sitting there, like, tears are coming down my face, and they're like, are you doing okay?
Speaker B:And, like, they're not actually asking you.
Speaker A:I'm just like.
Speaker B:Like, how would you even know?
Speaker B:Because you also have, like, that.
Speaker B:They put, like, a clamp spacer to hold your mouth so you can't, like.
Speaker B:And I'm trying not to throw up because, like, because I have a really bad, you know, gag reflex.
Speaker B:But also just my stomach's not great right now, so, like, I throw up all the time.
Speaker B:And so I'm trying not to puke while, like, this guy's hand is my mouth.
Speaker B:He's, like, doing just, like, jamming things in there.
Speaker B:Singing Zombie.
Speaker B:Like, I don't want to be crying while, like, you're cutting open my mouth while some man is going zombie, like, over my face.
Speaker A:I have a question about the singing and I have to ask.
Speaker A:So is it, like.
Speaker A:Is it, like, part of their sales pitch?
Speaker A:Like, we sing while we grind your teeth?
Speaker A:They just happen to.
Speaker B:No, it's not.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:It's not a gimmick.
Speaker B:It's not like.
Speaker B:It's not the singing dentist office.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:It just happens to be the case.
Speaker B:That's just their jam.
Speaker B:That's their vibe.
Speaker A:That's what they would appreciate it more if it was their stimulus dick.
Speaker A:Because I'd also be like, why the did you book this place?
Speaker A:But I also.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I appreciate the energy, right?
Speaker B:It keeps, like, everybody.
Speaker A:Everybody is distracted and high energy.
Speaker B:They're high.
Speaker B:They're, like, in it.
Speaker B:You know, like, we're.
Speaker B:And it's almost like, you know the TV shows where, like, the surgeons in there and they got the music and they've got their.
Speaker A:Like, you're in zoned.
Speaker B:But at the same time, it was just like, but you should be fine.
Speaker B:Like, he just, like, rinse your mouth out with some salt water and left and just, like, went to, like, another patient.
Speaker B:He was already on to the next patient.
Speaker B:And then I had to go get X rays done.
Speaker B:And then, like, he didn't even have time to leave that patient to look at my X ray.
Speaker B:The assistant took a picture of my X ray with his phone and walked that.
Speaker B:Walked his phone back to show the doctor what my X ray looks like.
Speaker A:Fun.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I also told him that my X ray looked perfect and, like, it was okay to leave, but he didn't listen to me.
Speaker B:I was like, it looked great.
Speaker A:No, he didn't listen to you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Apparently, that word wasn't good enough.
Speaker B:I'm like, I don't know what this dot.
Speaker B:Like, where that doctor would just go either.
Speaker B:So I'm sure he's very good at what he does, but sometimes slow down.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't also, if anybody's doing something in my mouth like that and you.
Speaker A:And you're using the word thrust, I'm not into that.
Speaker B:Typically.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, my last dental office, it would be topical.
Speaker B:Topical sits for like, a minute, and then, like, we'll do, like, a test one.
Speaker B:They go, can you feel this?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And they ask, and they make sure, like, did it start working?
Speaker A:Not just swipe, boom, and check if you can actually, like, reply to them.
Speaker A:That's key, too, because is this fine work?
Speaker A:I do like my dentist, but they are really chatty.
Speaker A:They don't.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:They don't sing, but they like to chat, and they ask you a lot of questions while they're cleaning your teeth.
Speaker A:Teeth.
Speaker A:I'm like, look, do you want me to stop you and answer, or do you want me to just, like.
Speaker A:And, like, make a noise and let you just keep talking?
Speaker A:Because these aren't yes and no questions.
Speaker A:They're like, oh, how's, you know, how is your day?
Speaker A:You got a busy afternoon.
Speaker A:I'm like, I.
Speaker A:Yeah, I do.
Speaker B:Like, there are some that I would have had longer procedures that are like, bring earbuds and listen to a podcast.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Makes sense.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker B:But I don't know if, like, that amplifies a dentist tool sound or not.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm Your ears plugged in my.
Speaker B:I don't want that sound loud.
Speaker B:Especially like the water scraping something.
Speaker A:That's the worst.
Speaker B:Anyway, so now that we've grossed you out about teeth, this is not a teeth episode or an eyeball episode.
Speaker B:There's actually no gross body parts in this episode at all.
Speaker B:This episode is, however, painted black.
Speaker B:As I said, that is based off of.
Speaker B:I don't say it's an.
Speaker B:It's not an annoying song.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:It's is.
Speaker B:It's a song by the Rolling Stones.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker B:Is how it goes.
Speaker B:And this was season 10, episode 16.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:Showalter and was written by one of our favorite writing teams, Buckner and Ross Lemming.
Speaker B:So we're going to open up in Wisdom, Mass.
Speaker B:We're going to.
Speaker B:To go into Wisdom, Massachusetts.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Go to.
Speaker A:Going to church.
Speaker A:So we have a.
Speaker A:At Terry finishing up his confession.
Speaker A:And he.
Speaker A:It leaves confession and something.
Speaker A:We can tell something.
Speaker B:He's followed by a Vaseline lens.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Something.
Speaker A:Something creepy.
Speaker B:Vaseline went on the lens of the camera is what happened, I think.
Speaker B:And so he gets Vaselined.
Speaker B:And then he takes a candle off a candlestick, goes outside the church and.
Speaker A:Stabs himself aggressively with this candlestick.
Speaker A:It's gross.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't.
Speaker B:Those, like, thing.
Speaker B:Those little prompts.
Speaker B:Think the spikes, like they're made to go into wax.
Speaker B:Like, I can't see them being like, I can pierce a chest bone.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah, because he's like slicing down with it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then he like, gorgeous.
Speaker B:Like, I can't believe that thing didn't break off.
Speaker B:Like, where are they getting that made?
Speaker B:I want to know.
Speaker A:Italy, apparently.
Speaker A:Italy, apparently.
Speaker B:Italy.
Speaker B:So he.
Speaker B:He aggressively does that.
Speaker B:And then we end there and we have our intro.
Speaker B:And then we go to Hell.
Speaker A:We go to Hell.
Speaker A:And a demon is begging Crowley to talk to his mom because she is still mad at him.
Speaker A:She is vexed and she is taking it out on the court.
Speaker A:And he realizes that he's supposed.
Speaker A:They're supposed to be punished in hell.
Speaker A:But this is too much, too far.
Speaker B:She's gone too far.
Speaker A:And he turns and she has.
Speaker A:He now has two faces, one on the back of his head in addition to his regular face, which I think is useful maybe, but.
Speaker A:So he calls for her and she comes in pretending, clearly pretending to be all sad, but she's very complimentary of her own work and creating her two face demon, which is.
Speaker B:Yeah, she thinks her work is magnificent.
Speaker B:And it is.
Speaker A:And he tells her, that's enough.
Speaker A:But she's like, I am devastated, betrayed, and brokenhearted because he will not go to the Grand Coven for her to let her practice magic for real again and have free reign.
Speaker A:Because she has free reign, she'd be fucking unstoppable.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the Grand Coven is a supreme command of all witchcraft, and they control whether or not it is sanctioned for her to practice magic.
Speaker B:But as Crowley points out, though, it's like, you're still practicing magic, right?
Speaker B:So, like, what are they doing?
Speaker B:So, like, what.
Speaker B:Like, what else could she do if she had the Grand Coven?
Speaker A:And she's like, this is nothing.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:You know, I should just sit.
Speaker A:And he's like, well, I'm just gonna send you back to the dungeon.
Speaker A:And she's like, whatever.
Speaker A:You're helping the Winchesters with the First Blade that, you know, you won't.
Speaker A:You won't help me.
Speaker A:And he's like, what have you done for me?
Speaker A:She's like, you wouldn't exist.
Speaker A:Which is actually factually accurate.
Speaker A:I mean, she makes a very factual, factual point.
Speaker A:And then she breaks all the glass in the room and leaves because he.
Speaker B:Says a spell, and that is from the Middle English biting, from the Old English abuct.
Speaker B:And I don't know how those phonetic things work.
Speaker B:And that means to bite in pieces, tear to pieces, bite, eat, devour, gnaw, taste, partake of, consume.
Speaker B:All very good words.
Speaker A:Well, we cut to baby, and Dean is guessing, hey, this might be a curse.
Speaker A:And Sam is very distracted, looking at research about the Mark still.
Speaker A:And Dean's like, come on.
Speaker A:We've got this case.
Speaker A:There's these suicides.
Speaker A:We've got this.
Speaker A:You know, these people that are, like, gutting themselves and slowly and painfully.
Speaker A:So we need to go figure this out, because they might not actually be suicide.
Speaker A:Like, we got to find the link between them.
Speaker B:Why would.
Speaker B:In, like, three people who gutted themselves.
Speaker B:Like, no, that's not a coincidence.
Speaker A:Not at all.
Speaker B:Not more than one person.
Speaker B:One person.
Speaker B:One person gutting themselves is not a coincidence.
Speaker B:That's something.
Speaker A:That's weird.
Speaker B:That's weird.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So at the church, we see two nuns talking about a handsome young man.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's Sister Matthias and Isabella, for the sake of sanity, trying to talk about two nuns.
Speaker A:And Isabella describes Piero, who was an artist.
Speaker A:She was his muse and made her feel free, and she loved him.
Speaker A:And you dumb.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, she.
Speaker A:You know, they.
Speaker A:The instrument.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Psycho.
Speaker A:We're so much alike.
Speaker A:We joined the Convent for a higher purpose.
Speaker A:And to get away from things that made us sad.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So the first nun is basically telling us the story of dumb girls of all time who fall in love with an artist dude who is like, baby, you're my muse.
Speaker B:And she's like, you're the only boy I've ever loved.
Speaker B:Yeah, we can have sex.
Speaker B:And that's what happened.
Speaker B:And the other nine's like, totally.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker B:So then we go from that to the police station.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where Sam and Dean are like, this is weird.
Speaker A:These victims don't have anything in common.
Speaker A:No known enemies, except for the fact they're Catholic.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:That's something in common.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Oh, and.
Speaker A:But there's nothing hexy.
Speaker A:Well, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, but Sam's like, it's Massachusetts.
Speaker B:Like almost like 90 of people here are Catholic.
Speaker B:Hex.
Speaker A:Well, there's nothing hexy on any of the scenes.
Speaker A:And demon possession doesn't really make sense because if they're going to possess a person, they kind of want that person to stay alive for these little.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:I disagree.
Speaker A:I do too.
Speaker A:I thought that was a weird one.
Speaker B:Aren't there a lot of demons in dead meat suits?
Speaker A:I thought so.
Speaker B:I thought they're a lot.
Speaker B:They died.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker A:But wouldn't they stay in it then instead of.
Speaker B:I mean, they leave it.
Speaker B:I guess they don't generally pop into dead people.
Speaker A:That was a confusing thing.
Speaker A:And it's part.
Speaker A:A weird part of lore.
Speaker A:And I'm.
Speaker A:I'm glad you flagged that because I thought that was weird too.
Speaker A:And so they get a call from the police or they got.
Speaker A:They got the phone from the police.
Speaker A:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:My note was wrong.
Speaker A:They have one of the victim's cell phones.
Speaker A:So they are going to take it back to the FBI lab to hack it.
Speaker B:Which is.
Speaker B:Does that mean hacker Sam is going to crack the phone or are they actually taking it to the FBI lab?
Speaker B:Because that would be really funny if they wouldn't to like the FEI lab.
Speaker B:They're like, can you crack this phone for us?
Speaker A:After I be like, wtf?
Speaker A:No, it's hacker Sam.
Speaker B:Hacker Sam is going to be able to crack a phone.
Speaker B:It's so great.
Speaker B:And he thinks it's probably full of nude selfies, but he feels good about this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So back at the church, a.
Speaker A:Another man finishes his confession.
Speaker A:He walks down and one of his.
Speaker A:His wife is one of the pews praying.
Speaker A:He helps her put her coat on.
Speaker A:And they are leaving holding hands.
Speaker A:But something's following them.
Speaker A:The Vaseline lens.
Speaker A:Vaseline lens is at it again.
Speaker A:And it's just.
Speaker B:That filter is coming to get you.
Speaker A:And later that night, she catches him in the fridge going through sandwich.
Speaker A:He's, you know, he's gonna up the meal plan for the week because he's gonna eat something that's in a recipe that she's been planning that she bought for that.
Speaker A:And so she's pissed.
Speaker A:I'm just kidding.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure he took out lunch meat and was making a sandwich.
Speaker B:But yes, you also.
Speaker B:He's the things.
Speaker B:And he's telling her that work is, you know, work is what kept him through such late hours.
Speaker B:But even looking at his face, he looks like a lying little.
Speaker B:He just looks like he is a bad liar.
Speaker A:And she's an actor.
Speaker A:Bad liar, you know, and she calls him a liar.
Speaker A:And she grabs her really nice sewing scissors and stabs him repeatedly.
Speaker B:Those are for fabric only.
Speaker A:I know you don't use those for other things.
Speaker B:You don't use those.
Speaker A:I have those.
Speaker B:Especially not for guts.
Speaker B:You're going to ruin your scissors, lady.
Speaker A:And the blood, it's like you're gonna have to like clean them.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker A:It's gonna be a whole thing.
Speaker B:I didn't know you were gonna get that out.
Speaker B:You just ruined your scissors.
Speaker A:Such a sad, sad thing.
Speaker A:Well, she stops in the stomach repeatedly.
Speaker A:And then this weird ghost thing leaves her body and ghosts smoke out and she realizes what she did and she starts screaming for Frank.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker A:That would be really distressing, right?
Speaker B:Waking up after you stab somebody.
Speaker B:Yeah, that would.
Speaker B:That would be very distressing.
Speaker B:Yeah, I would think so.
Speaker A:Okay, so Sam and Dean are gonna.
Speaker B:Go talk now that we are agreed on that.
Speaker B:Top that topic.
Speaker A:I mean, I know it's not like, oh, that's a hot take.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:I mean, hello.
Speaker A:Taking an aggressive stance here.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think.
Speaker B:Think that the more if you were not.
Speaker B:If.
Speaker B:If you are not going to be disturbed if you wake up after you've stashed somebody.
Speaker B:I think I need to go seek help right now.
Speaker A:You do you yourself in some.
Speaker A:I guess my point wasn't that it would like, obviously, obviously be distressing, but I was just like, I was distressed watching it for.
Speaker A:For this character.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And she also went through the stomach, which was also like.
Speaker B:That was harsh.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So there Sam and Dean are at the church talking to the priest and he can't believe that Lisa would murder Frank.
Speaker A:Lisa.
Speaker A:Frank.
Speaker B:See, I can't think because it was Lisa McCarthy.
Speaker B:And I kept thinking about Paul McCarthy and that was.
Speaker B:So then I.
Speaker B:Yeah, but it was like, her name is Linda, not Lisa.
Speaker A:Different one.
Speaker A:So she has no.
Speaker A:We find out that she has no memory of this at all.
Speaker A:And they're like, well, what was Frank's confession?
Speaker A:And appreciate.
Speaker A:Like, I can't divulge that, but I can confirm that all of the victims did do a confession.
Speaker A:Can confirm, can confirm, can confirm.
Speaker A:So Sister Matthias is introduced as.
Speaker A:That's one of our nuns from earlier.
Speaker B:He is the director of social services.
Speaker B:So, like, does she manage her Twitter account?
Speaker A:She's the one that organizes.
Speaker A:Like, the after, after mass luncheons.
Speaker B:She's responsible for.
Speaker B:Bingo.
Speaker B:I love you, Sister Mateus.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker B:Or Messiah.
Speaker B:So I don't like your name, though.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Yeah, we've got Agent Almond and Agent Betts.
Speaker A:Of course we do.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:So Sam's gonna ask her about the deaths, and she's like, oh, I thought they were just suicides.
Speaker A:What are you talking about?
Speaker A:And Dean's eye.
Speaker A:Her.
Speaker A:So Sam's gonna go wander around and.
Speaker A:And search the place while Dean asks her questions.
Speaker B:And she's also intrigued about the M.O.
Speaker B:like, she gets excited about that.
Speaker B:So I think our hot nun is a true crime junkie.
Speaker B:So she's got that going for her.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker A:And she's, like, agreeing, like, Dean's asking her about these.
Speaker A:All these victims.
Speaker A:And, like.
Speaker A:Well, at least and Frank seem to be devoted to each other.
Speaker A:But the other victim had angry text messages between him and his girlfriend because he'd been around on her.
Speaker B:So nuns know everything.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, because Sister has heard a rumor that she trusts that Frank was around on Lisa.
Speaker A:Made me sad.
Speaker A:Anyways, while Sam's walking around doing emf, setting EMF readings on prayer candles.
Speaker B:Of course those are haunted.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:I was like, they're like, no, those are clearly haunted.
Speaker B:Yeah, pretty sure.
Speaker B:Like, there's like, 64 ghosts, one for each handle.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think they represent a ghost.
Speaker B:You think each candle's supposed to be a ghost?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, those are definitely.
Speaker A:I'm like, I don't know why you're wasting your energy there, sir.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:So Dean's like, oh, how did you become a nun after all?
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You know, pick this.
Speaker A:Choose this quiet life, something so different.
Speaker A:And she's like, I didn't have a choice.
Speaker A:Life was.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:You know, my life was painful and hopeless.
Speaker A:And this gave me a mission that was bigger than myself, which I think was interesting for Dean because that's.
Speaker A:That's kind of how he is coping with his challenges in his life.
Speaker A:But Sam interrupts and he's like, so is there a cemetery around here?
Speaker A:Oh, yes, of course.
Speaker A:The church is built on a burial ground.
Speaker A:Duh.
Speaker A:So we got prayer candles in a Catholic church built on a burial ground.
Speaker B:Yes, of course.
Speaker B:You have emf.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:And he.
Speaker A:They start asking her if he's felt anything unusual, like, you're not quite alone.
Speaker A:And she makes jokes about ghosty stuff and says that she doesn't believe in ghosts.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:She's lying.
Speaker A:She is lying.
Speaker B:It's not very good.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:You gotta go confession now.
Speaker B:So then we're walking outside.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which apparently I wrote walking ousted.
Speaker B:And I was like, what the fuck?
Speaker B:Who is walking ousted?
Speaker B:So they're walking outside, and Sam and Dean are talking.
Speaker B:And Dean points out that there is a theme, or one of them points out there's a theme of women being done wrong.
Speaker A:So maybe.
Speaker A:And somehow is this ghost tied to the confessional?
Speaker A:And as they are walking away on, I noticed the sign outside this church says, he ain't heavy.
Speaker A:He's my brother.
Speaker A:The Hollies and Jesus.
Speaker B:This church is also across the street from where the hotel, the Sheraton, where the con was for a few years in Vancouver.
Speaker A:Oh, that's fun.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm using a few episodes.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:So we go back to Hell, where Rowena has been summoned by Crowley because he's seen how and understands how stifled she must feel.
Speaker A:So he's going to bring the coven to her, and he brings in the High Priestess of the Covenant.
Speaker A:All of it.
Speaker B:Her arena calls an utter.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And she's, like, shaking mad.
Speaker A:Like, she's like.
Speaker A:She hates all of it.
Speaker A:Like, really hates her.
Speaker A:And the.
Speaker A:And all of that calls Roman a bottom feeder, but all of that's the one in iron chains, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker A:She can't really do.
Speaker A:So Crowley leaves them alone to figure out because he's like, whatevs, here you go.
Speaker A:Unfuck your coven problem.
Speaker B:Well, just whatever is going to make you happy.
Speaker B:Here you go.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So she, Olivet, just, like, leans in, starts calling Rowena names.
Speaker A:Which seems like not the best strategy when you're the one that's in hell.
Speaker B:I don't think it's smart.
Speaker B:And then we also find out that all of that is an utter bitch.
Speaker B:Because one of the main reasons that they were persecuting Rowena is because she, Crowley's dad, who was not a magician.
Speaker A:He was a muggle.
Speaker B:He was a muggle.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker A:And then she was mad that he had a mud blood.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So we don't.
Speaker B:We don't like that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But now Ruben is just like, look, first of all, my personal life was never any of your business.
Speaker B:Like, say the.
Speaker B:Out of my.
Speaker B:Like, what the hell is wrong with this Kevin?
Speaker B:Second of all, that little hell spawn is now the king of hell, and you're in his palace.
Speaker B:Suck it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So there we go.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:So after telling her to suck it, we go go to church, and their hot nun is talking to sad nun who is still talking about her bag boy, Pierro, and how deeply she fell.
Speaker A:In love with this asshole because she was obsessed.
Speaker A:And how there was, like, so close of a different, you know, connection between madness and devotion.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:This crazy.
Speaker B:Okay, yeah.
Speaker B:She has crazy ex girlfriend eyes for most of us.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:For real.
Speaker A: rpiece in Florence, Italy, in: Speaker A:And she told him that she loved him, and in response, he hesitated a whole bunch and then called her just a.
Speaker B:He friend zoned her.
Speaker B:He think he friend zoned her.
Speaker B:And he could not love anything more than he loved his art.
Speaker B:Then she goes into a deep depression, and her family couldn't take it anymore.
Speaker B:They're just like, shut the up about Piero.
Speaker B:He's a goddamn painter.
Speaker B:You should do better.
Speaker B:Like, he keeps saying, like, he's just gonna take all your money.
Speaker B:No, you're not his muse to stop listening to him.
Speaker B:Shut the up about Piero.
Speaker B:We're gonna send you to a goddamn convent.
Speaker A:They sent her to the convent.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:In summary, she didn't shut the up.
Speaker A:She got sent to the convent.
Speaker A:To the convent.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And everything from her father's estate and her journal have now been delivered to this church and Sister Matthias.
Speaker B:And it's pretty cool.
Speaker B:I want to go through it all.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:What is this?
Speaker A:An interesting collection.
Speaker A:And why is the social person in charge of this?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:This seems like very expensive shit.
Speaker B:Like, probably stuff that should be in a museum.
Speaker B:Probably not.
Speaker B:This church.
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker B:That has clearly no temperature controls, no lighting controls.
Speaker B:It should look made of damp stone.
Speaker B:But, hey, here, take the 16th century artifacts.
Speaker B:They're fine.
Speaker A:No curator of any kind.
Speaker A:Just the criticism of training the chick that organizes bingo.
Speaker A:It's gonna Twitter.
Speaker B:Becky is gonna.
Speaker A:I tweeted about the bingo game.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:Anyways, so Rowena in hell has now is now taken to physical violence against all of that.
Speaker A:And Slapping her.
Speaker A:Olivet does call her overrated, which I think is funny.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker A:And Marina's calling Olivet envious, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:But they go back and forth and basically all of that stance is that Rowena, not only did she have like this kid that they thought was wrong, blah, blah, but she is too ambitious.
Speaker A:She's blindly ambitious.
Speaker A:She's, you know, just not.
Speaker A:She didn't make good choices.
Speaker A:She always like was focused on herself.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And this grand coven was only interested in black cats and broomsticks and she wanted greatness.
Speaker B:So fuck them.
Speaker B:But there's a problem that also the grand coven isn't shit anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because the fucking do gooders in the Men of Letters plundered all of their shit.
Speaker B:Rabid group of sanctimonious do gooders who drove their bust underground, then stole their secrets and shipped them to bunkers.
Speaker B:Smug, self righteous bastards, those Men of Letters.
Speaker B:So we're going to talk about some other witches and grand covens.
Speaker B:They've been holding on her for a while.
Speaker B:So this is lore and this is gonna be one of those hang on to your receipts because there's a lot.
Speaker B:And we're gonna have to break this into two parts.
Speaker B:And so I've been saving her.
Speaker B:So we're going to talk about Rosalind Norton, AKA the Witch of King's Cross.
Speaker B:So we're going to Australia.
Speaker B:Well, first we're going to take a stop.
Speaker B:So Rosalie Norton was born to a middle class family in Dunden in New Zealand.
Speaker B:So Dundon, she says, during a thunderstorm at 4:30am Oct.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:She was youngest of three sisters, but her sisters were at least 10 years her senior.
Speaker B:Her father was English and her mother was from New Zealand.
Speaker B:Z, England.
Speaker B:This is a new place, New Zealand.
Speaker B:It's really funny.
Speaker B:It's next to New Zealand.
Speaker B:It's where all the really good comics go.
Speaker B:So the family though moved from New Zealand to a wealthy Sydney suburb when she was 8.
Speaker B:She described this period of her life as a generally wearisome period of senseless shivboleths, prying adults, detestable or depressing children who I was supposed to like and parental reproaches.
Speaker B:She avoided her family by sleeping in a tent in her garden where she had a number.
Speaker B:You'll see why I identify with this lady where she had a number of animal friends, including Horatius the spider, cats, lizards, tortoises, toes, dogs and a goat.
Speaker B:As this was in Australia, I am sure many of those could actually kill you.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:I was very fond of the lizard and he lived in a stump.
Speaker B:We used to have an understanding about everything.
Speaker B:You could say there was an affinity.
Speaker B:So this man hurt her lizard and she assaulted him.
Speaker B:I'm fine with that.
Speaker B:I once defended a lizard from a snake.
Speaker B:So, I mean, we all do things.
Speaker A:I mean, she was 35 years old then.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was like 42 when I was offending a lizard.
Speaker B:So why.
Speaker B:All right, so Rosaline went to the Church of England Girls school in Chatswood, Sydney until she was 14.
Speaker B:She was showing immense artistic talent, but her subject matters of werewolves, blood drinking, vampires and spirits rising out of cemeteries were labeled depraved and likely disturbed the other students.
Speaker B:Kids.
Speaker B:I think she was just a goth.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:I very much.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, but also I just think how.
Speaker B:How much of a badass.
Speaker B:Like, I love these like people who are goths in like the 30s and 40s.
Speaker B:Like, how did you know about werewolves and vampires and like ghosts and.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, that's amazing.
Speaker B:So after the girls school, she took her portfolio to the East Sydney Technical College, where she kept doing exploring her pagan themes.
Speaker B:We will discuss more of her artwork in the next episode because that directly ties in with a lot of her court hearings.
Speaker B:So the next episode we'll talk about all the time she got arrested.
Speaker B:We'll talk about one time this time, but only one time.
Speaker B:So she said she self initiated into witchcraft when she took the oath of allegiance to the horned God when she was 13.
Speaker B:If you are a witch, nobody has to teach you.
Speaker B:In my case, it came naturally and nobody had to teach me.
Speaker B:According to Rosaline, the neophyte, after a period of probation, is asked questions, then assumes a ceremonial posture.
Speaker B:One hand on the crown of the head, the other on the sole of the foot.
Speaker B:To which I ask the question, are they sanding?
Speaker A:That's a good question.
Speaker B:Those are two very different situations.
Speaker B:If you have a hand on your head and your foot and you're sitting down, I'm doing that right now.
Speaker B:If you see me on video, like, you'll see that.
Speaker B:But like you don't auto.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:You just hear me and hear me helping my mind.
Speaker B:But if you're standing, that's like some lotus, like you're in tree.
Speaker B:Like that takes some balance and.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So during this initiation, they take an oath of allegiance to the coven's main deity.
Speaker B:In Rosaline's coven, that was generally Pan and Hecate.
Speaker B:So when we say the horn God, it's generally pan that she's referring to a ritual to the four elemental powers before or after is also necessary.
Speaker B:Then the initiate is given a new name and a piece of cord known as the witch's garter.
Speaker B:Attire ranges from nakedness to robes, hoods, sandals and accessories like ritual mass in the shapes of animals and birds, which I think are just fun.
Speaker B:Different types of incense are used based on the rite.
Speaker B:Sometimes herbs are infused and drunk.
Speaker B:Rosaline also confirmed in an interview that she did a protective magic circle around the ritual area she was working.
Speaker B:So her tradition of witchcraft was said to be called the Goat Fold, which was a branch said to be brought to Australia by British convicts tinged with some Welsh flavors.
Speaker B:The first degree called conserie, is based off a Welsh word meaning wise woman or cunning man.
Speaker B:So her coven used five working tools.
Speaker B:The athame for air, the cup for water, the sensor for fire, the pentacle for earth and the cord for spirit.
Speaker B:While her practice did have things in common with the gardenarian practice, there are still many things that are different.
Speaker B:And she kind of.
Speaker B:We'll get into how she doesn't meet.
Speaker B:She corresponds with the British witch Gerald Gardner during the 50s, but she was already doing witchy when she wrote to him.
Speaker B:So they think that she may.
Speaker B:She wrote a lot of the rituals herself or got them some other places.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There's also rituals involving wine and honey, honey cakes.
Speaker B:And I know on the show before we have talked about really gross cakes that involved menstrual blood.
Speaker B:And you're not escaping that.
Speaker B:But that's not going to happen today.
Speaker B:That'll happen.
Speaker B:You get to look forward to that in the next week's show when we talk about sex magic.
Speaker B:Because she's from New Zealand.
Speaker B:So I'm assuming when she said sex magic, she said magic.
Speaker B:So during this time of most of her life, witchcraft was illegal.
Speaker B: Wales, where Sydney is until: Speaker B: wouldn't be made legal until: Speaker B:But those laws, as in most places where witchcraft hung around, were rarely enforced.
Speaker B:Instead, just like in England and the US where they like to use was the Vagrancy Act.
Speaker B: So they did a vagrancy act of: Speaker B:Shocking that there was a bunch of crime in Australia.
Speaker B:But was really cool is to the crime leaders were ladies and someday we'll talk about them.
Speaker B:But so they would use the.
Speaker B:The cops would use the vacancy act to really kind of, you know, harass the people particularly of this neighborhood, King's Cross.
Speaker B:And that becomes one of the main stomping grounds of Rosaleen.
Speaker B:And she's known as Rowy to most of her friends.
Speaker B:And people like would come, like when they would go to King's Cross, like they would come looking for her.
Speaker B:And some were lucky enough to be invited to her flat at 179 Brougham street where there was a placard on the door that stated, welcome to the house of ghosts, goblins, werewolves, vampire vampires, witches, wizards and poltergeists.
Speaker B:Which I'm amazed all those things can live together in one house.
Speaker B:That seems like a lot of personalities.
Speaker A:Seems very chaotic.
Speaker B:Yeah, especially you add on the poltergeist.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I don't trust them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:When Rosaline and her then lover Gavin Greenlist first moved into this place, it was occupied by vagrants and bohemians.
Speaker B:They first lived in a converted laundry basement with a bunch of cats and a sign there that said the female vagrant.
Speaker B:They eventually moved to the attic which was at first occupied by a one handed man named Mick.
Speaker B:This man shares no importance with her story as far as I can tell, but everyone includes that there was a one handed man named Mick that lived in this attic.
Speaker B:So I figured we have to know it.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:thompson interviewed Rosaline and two of her coven members.
Speaker B:Neither were identified by their real names.
Speaker B:One, a plump, dark and middle aged with a face like a successful dentist, was an electrical engineer.
Speaker B:He put on a toad mask, the other, a taciturn, squarely built type.
Speaker B:He put on a rat's mask.
Speaker B:Rosaline was wearing a cat mask with a hole in it to allow her to smoke while wearing it.
Speaker B:She changed.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So which I think is important for your mask.
Speaker B:Then she changed into ritual clothing which entailed a loosely hung quote, witch's apron and a black shawl.
Speaker B:Thompson described an altar with a man sized picture painted by Miss Norton of a particularly toothy devil.
Speaker B:To the left and right of Lucifer, two candles burned while in front a spirit lamp added its quote of smoke to the generally murky atmosphere.
Speaker B:Odd horns, devil's portions and other black magic.
Speaker B:Bric Brac stood around.
Speaker B:Behind us almost lost in gloom, was a deep easy chair and beside it was a smaller altar with a seashell full of bat's blood or something of the sort.
Speaker B:Thompson also misidentified the God Pan as Lucifer.
Speaker B:So the toothy grin devil was not Lucifer, but was the horned God Pan, who is the deity that she worships.
Speaker A:Why don't we use the term bric a brac more.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:We should bring it back.
Speaker A:Bring.
Speaker B:Bring back bric a brick.
Speaker A:Bring back.
Speaker A:Bring back bric a brac.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Thompson asked Rosaline how many people were in her coven and she said seven.
Speaker B:Toad told Thompson that theirs is not the only coven in Sydney.
Speaker B:No, this is only one of half a dozen.
Speaker B:As you see, we are quite well equipped, although perhaps a little restricted for space.
Speaker B:There is one coven which I visit which is much better equipped.
Speaker B:However, this serves our purpose admirably and we are all indebted to Ms.
Speaker B:Norton for accommodating and decorating it.
Speaker B:So I think that's really interesting if this is true.
Speaker B: This is the: Speaker B:And that's pretty awesome if that's true.
Speaker B:So Rosalie also said during the interview, sorcerers or witches, the term applies to either sex, although males are generally known as warlocks.
Speaker B:And the more advanced or wizards are not confined to any age, class, professional or social sphere.
Speaker B:The youngest I have encountered apart from myself was a male of 17, the oldest witch of 65.
Speaker B:As I said, this coven has seven members.
Speaker B:The oldest is 51 and the youngest 25.
Speaker B:There are also several associate or honorary members of both sexes.
Speaker B:And our last meeting was held in my own studio temple here.
Speaker B:Other meeting places have included two North Shore suburbs and an eastern suburb which is really also.
Speaker B: I love thinking about that: Speaker B:I would like.
Speaker B:Hopefully someone has some home video of that.
Speaker B:That would be fantastic.
Speaker B:Please let us know.
Speaker A:I want to see the wardrobe for sure.
Speaker B:Yes, for oh my gosh.
Speaker B:And in the summer they would meet in outdoors, anywhere that was suitable.
Speaker B: When asked again in: Speaker B:Asked again, she said at least 200 followers in Sydney and hundreds more throughout the country.
Speaker B:It is possible that she started to think of herself as the head of all was Australian witchcraft covens.
Speaker B: with Robert Drew Published in: Speaker B:And she was now going to be do ceremonies that would be held in her coven that she said she presided over four major ritual meetings a year in Candle Moss Mass.
Speaker B:Candle Mouse was going to be the next ceremony that would be held in her coven.
Speaker B:She said we feast, dance and drink.
Speaker B:The sexual side of things is very important.
Speaker B:We invoke deities and spirits and set to work to formulate whatever we mutually want through spells and also things that we want for ourselves.
Speaker B:Black magic is a very personal thing.
Speaker B:It is an integral part of our lives.
Speaker B:I took care of two policemen who were foolish enough to tangle with me.
Speaker B:One was soon afterwards forced to resign from the police force, and the other, a detective sergeant, soon found himself pounding the beat again.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:During this, she was interviewed in her home by two journalists.
Speaker B:Among all the paraphernalia, they could have said rickabeck of witchcraft, including an altar, and was attended by her pet cat, some salamanders, and a rat named Percy, whom Norton said she was training to become a familiar.
Speaker B:Rosaline told her interview when she was engaged and mostly was hexing various people by request.
Speaker B:During the casting of the spell, Ms.
Speaker B:Norton wore a goat's head mask and rang bells, poured water and burnt incense, all the time chanting to summon the forces of the earth God.
Speaker B:After it was all over, it took about three and a half minutes.
Speaker B:We asked Ms.
Speaker B:Norton what spell she had cast.
Speaker B:She had told us she cast a spell to assure the production success.
Speaker B:The next day, our camera broke down.
Speaker B:So that is Roe's Rosaline story for now.
Speaker B:I'm gonna leave you on your edge, wondering about the seeks magic and all the many wonderful times that she went to court.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Good times.
Speaker B:So wild magic.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's crazy.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just, I.
Speaker B:I know, like, Australia isn't like the middle of nowhere, but it's just kind of like I.
Speaker B:Knowing.
Speaker B:Knowing what I know.
Speaker B:But you're thinking about the fact that during that time, like, in Los Angeles, there was a bunch of people practicing witchcraft, and like in England, there was a bunch of people practicing witchcraft or like experimenting with it.
Speaker B:And the same thing was happening in Australia.
Speaker B:And like, this is like the 20s.
Speaker A:30S, 40s, 50s, it's a little more.
Speaker A:I mean, it was a.
Speaker A:Slightly more isolated from the rest of the world.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, but slightly.
Speaker B:But the fact that this was just stuff that was going on everywhere and we don't really.
Speaker B:We think about that being such an uptight, you know, at least I think traditionally I would.
Speaker B:And I wouldn't think about like, magic and like witchcraft, like from a societal thing, like, I would become more accepted in the 60s.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, right, right.
Speaker B:Not that it was like so much earlier than that, which I Just think is.
Speaker B:Is really interesting.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And I want a cat's mask where I rebel.
Speaker A:I know, right?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Ah.
Speaker A:So we cut back to the church where Dean is now doing his confession.
Speaker A:And he is giving a.
Speaker A:He's giving it kind of true, kind of false story about basically trying to know if that's.
Speaker B:This is false or not.
Speaker B:I very much believe there was probably a woman named Gina who fed him lasagna.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, and.
Speaker A:And they had really good sex.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's all about the sex and lasagna.
Speaker A:And he did her wrong.
Speaker A:He led her to believe there was more to go.
Speaker A:More.
Speaker A:More future than there was.
Speaker A:And he was seeing multiple girls in the same day.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the priest tells her.
Speaker A:Tells him that he should do five Hail Marys and to our fathers and reflect and do some inner exploration about this.
Speaker A:It's your.
Speaker A:It's not just about doing the prayers.
Speaker A:It's about your soul searching.
Speaker A:And then Dean's like, so before I leave, what if I told you that I didn't want to die yet?
Speaker A:I'm just not ready.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And priest is like, are you expecting to.
Speaker A:And he's.
Speaker A:Dean's response is always.
Speaker A:And that's inevitable.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, that's true.
Speaker A:So he's so always expecting to die.
Speaker B:That is one thing I can guarantee.
Speaker A:It will happen eventually.
Speaker B:But in this is in his more like philosophical way.
Speaker B:And that maybe he wants to go deeper than in inside than Gina, you know, so he really wants to get into that lasagna.
Speaker A:He does with his feelings.
Speaker A:But that he's talking about that, you know, he's experiencing things differently and maybe there's just more to it all.
Speaker A:And the priest suggests that realize that the universe is bigger than just you can be a bit scary, but that believing in God can be a comfort.
Speaker A:And Acts 15 believes in God and Dean's like, yeah, I believe God exists.
Speaker A:I'm just unsure that he believes in us.
Speaker B:Well, and technically, Dean believes that a lot of gods.
Speaker B:Dean has killed a few gods.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I always feel like this is like, especially in supernatural mythology.
Speaker B:It's because, like, so having the Jude, like an actual physical, like Judeo Christian God in a.
Speaker B:A literal sense.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:When you have like Odin and you have, you know, you know, all these other things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I think that that makes this question even weirder.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is a little weird for.
Speaker A:For this series and there.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think it makes it just kind of an interesting mythological.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Within the show.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But you know, so that's where we go from that.
Speaker B:And then we get some ghost smoke.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because Dean's leaving to go meet up with Sam, and they are really hoping that this ghost is gonna come after him because he's a.
Speaker A:Because Dean's a jerk.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And Sister Matthias is watching this, and she's gonna go look for Isabella because now it's dawning on her that maybe there's something weird going on, but she can't find her.
Speaker A:Then we see our priest leave the confessional, and we see our.
Speaker B:Our filter has got him.
Speaker A:Our filters got him.
Speaker A:The Vaseline filter got him.
Speaker A:Goes into or through the priest, and we're go back to.
Speaker A:Sister Matthias has decided to start reading Isabella's journal.
Speaker B:And she can read Renaissance Italian.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Very impressive.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:First for a social calendar coordinator, Right?
Speaker A:I'm kidding.
Speaker A:So she is reading about how her love for Pierrot has now turned into hatred.
Speaker A:And she sneaks.
Speaker A:She sneaks out.
Speaker A:She sneaks into his studio from the.
Speaker A:From the convent.
Speaker A:And she is going to, you know, just ruin the painting.
Speaker A:That was her plan.
Speaker A:She just really want to ruin the painting of her, but she hears him and takes a dagger.
Speaker B:It's a blonde too.
Speaker B:Not only is it like he in love with art, his art is blonde.
Speaker A:Of course it is.
Speaker A:And she's gonna stab the out of him.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Or maybe both of them.
Speaker A:So Sister Matthias is like.
Speaker A:Okay, Salmon.
Speaker A:Dean.
Speaker A:Btw, I came.
Speaker A:I come across a lot of sad, harmless, and restless spirits.
Speaker A:I just didn't mention it before because I don't know.
Speaker A:But by the way, Isabella is a ghost.
Speaker A:I think she's the one doing this.
Speaker A:And she might not be so harmless after all.
Speaker A:So I'm a spiritual person, so obviously I accept there's multiple planes, but, yeah, usually they just go find rest at some point, but apparently that's not what's happening.
Speaker A:And we had a lot in common, so.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Showed up three weeks ago when all this showed up from Tivoli, and her family just donated it all to the church, but.
Speaker A:And Isabella arrived kind of right before all these deaths started and.
Speaker B:Coincidence.
Speaker A:And it didn't.
Speaker A:Just didn't put two and two together until, you know, she overheard Sam and Dean talking.
Speaker A:But the journal ends after her trial and may have become a vengeful spirit.
Speaker B:Well, and most importantly, too like.
Speaker B:Or not most.
Speaker B:But importantly, she was convicted of witchcraft and burned at the stake.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And so her body wouldn't be in Florence either at this point.
Speaker A:So now is it.
Speaker A:Is she Tied to the journal or is she tied to something else?
Speaker A:So Dean's like, burn the journal and all the from her family, Sam.
Speaker A:Burn it.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Put this in a museum.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:Please do not burn the Renaissance art.
Speaker B:Stop it.
Speaker B:Stop.
Speaker B:I don't care what the book is.
Speaker B:Stop burning it.
Speaker B:Stop.
Speaker B:Stop setting on fire.
Speaker A:No, you don't want.
Speaker A:You don't want them to burn the Italian artifacts from this.
Speaker B:Please don't freaking burn the precious Italian artifacts that tell us how to finally turn gold out of lead.
Speaker B:I know it's in there somewhere.
Speaker A:So they're alchemy now?
Speaker B:That's what.
Speaker B:That's what I'm pretty sure was in every single thing that was collected for the Renaissance with some tried to turn things into gold.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker B:We're trying to make people versions.
Speaker B:So we go from that hellhole to hell yes.
Speaker A:Where Rowena is still slapping all of it.
Speaker B:The out of all of it.
Speaker A:And all of it's like, look, I don't know anything else.
Speaker A:And she's like.
Speaker A:Rowena's like, no, you're holding onto this info just to keep me down and all that's like.
Speaker A:And then you.
Speaker A:And also, you let the Men of Letters plunder the coven.
Speaker B:Yeah, because all of that is like what we like.
Speaker B:You say she's not done talking.
Speaker B:She never stops talking about Rowan.
Speaker B:Rowena.
Speaker B:And she's really being like, you're self centered and you're this thirst for power.
Speaker B:But I think Rowena is right.
Speaker B:It was like you let these men take all your powerful spells and then you didn't do anything about it.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know.
Speaker A:I wouldn't want Rowena to have power either.
Speaker A:She seems very unhinged.
Speaker B:Well beyond the Rowena thing, but like, the point of like the Grand Coven, like, just let these, like, mute.
Speaker B:I saw those Men of Letters.
Speaker B:They were.
Speaker B:They look like insurance salesmen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Take my power.
Speaker B:Like, no.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's how the patriarchy wins.
Speaker B:You don't let the insurance people take your power.
Speaker B:No, ladies.
Speaker B:You fight back.
Speaker A:Well, she's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, she has a point about them taking this stuff, but it was like.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'm like.
Speaker A:I'm like.
Speaker A:He probably should have hit it from her way.
Speaker A:Now she seems look a little out there.
Speaker B:Just because she's a little off doesn't mean.
Speaker B:Look, sometimes I always.
Speaker A:You know, I don't need her to have that much power.
Speaker A:It's scary.
Speaker A:But either way.
Speaker A:So all of that does say, like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker A:Yeah, all this shit was dispersed.
Speaker A:It's not in, like, one location I can give you.
Speaker A:And by the way, the Men of Letters ended in the US in the 50s.
Speaker A:Except for the last two 17 Winchester Winchesters.
Speaker B:And Rowena is just like, I'm gonna.
Speaker B:I'm gonna kill myself.
Speaker B:Like, I can't believe he's this Winchester again.
Speaker B:Like, what the.
Speaker A:Who the are these?
Speaker A:But then Rowena snaps, and she's like, well, if the coven's not powerful anymore, then all of that's not useful anymore.
Speaker A:So there we go.
Speaker A:And all of that's trying to, like, plead for her life.
Speaker A:Now she's like, whoa, hold on.
Speaker A:Murder's not really acceptable.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker B:On which.
Speaker B:Murder?
Speaker B:Murder is fine.
Speaker B:Well, not which.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:On which.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And Rita's like, yeah, Now, I lived in fears for fear for years, for nothing.
Speaker A:And your community.
Speaker A:You ruined my life.
Speaker A:And you're gonna pay with yours.
Speaker A:So I have a bowl.
Speaker B:It's got stuff in it.
Speaker A:He's got a bowl of stuff.
Speaker A:Bowl of stuff.
Speaker B:I've got some bric a brac.
Speaker B:And with my bric a brac, I'm gonna tell you cruciatus something.
Speaker B:Crucianti.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker A:It's a cruciata spell.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:Which in Latin means torture and death.
Speaker B:Agonize.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But she stops, and she's seizing, and she's bleeding from her eyes and her.
Speaker A:Mouth, and it's gross.
Speaker A:But then she realizes, wait, this is too easy to just, like, kill you this way.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna change the spell.
Speaker A:And we hear the chains fall.
Speaker B:So she changes her spell to Fatem tuum est iter sini termino and newloom.
Speaker B:I just wanted to say that word a few times.
Speaker B:And that roughly translates to, thy fate will be to go on without it.
Speaker B:And it is called the Fate Manipulation.
Speaker B:Manipulation spell.
Speaker B:So we hear chains fall.
Speaker B:We know Rowena has turned her to something, but we don't know what it is.
Speaker B:We're left.
Speaker B:Left on edge to go back to the confused nun.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Why do you have a gun?
Speaker B:It's a ghost.
Speaker B:I don't understand.
Speaker A:Yeah, Very confused, Sam.
Speaker A:But while her and Dean are walking around with the CMF reader, Sam was reading.
Speaker B:Also reading 16th century Italian.
Speaker B:Very well, because he does.
Speaker A:He does also.
Speaker A:But he does rightfully think they probably should read the bucking journal before they burn it.
Speaker A:Just in case.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Like, should you read books before you burn them?
Speaker A:So he's like.
Speaker A:He finds out that Piero was so certain that she.
Speaker A:She was his Muse.
Speaker A:That he wanted some of her blood to mix into his pain.
Speaker A:Yeah, but she's.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:Well, but she's like, oh, no, that blood.
Speaker A:That's nothing.
Speaker A:Watch this.
Speaker A:And she cuts off her fingertip to.
Speaker A:So that he can have her flesh, blood, and bone to grind into her blood.
Speaker A:Too far.
Speaker A:He went too far.
Speaker A:Too far.
Speaker A:Oh, too far, ma'am.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:So we're gonna.
Speaker B:But then also, the.
Speaker B:Did it, like, he took it and, like, he ground it.
Speaker B:He painted with this.
Speaker B:Yes, but this is, like, texturally, like, it doesn't.
Speaker B:Like, how hard do you have to.
Speaker B:Like, it seems like there's a lot of pounding that has to go on.
Speaker B:Like, I don't know, so much pounding.
Speaker A:Did a lot of pounding.
Speaker B:Piero pounded a lot.
Speaker B:And I am assuming that it takes a lot to grind a piero down, but, yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, so Sam is like, oh, it's a painting.
Speaker B:Oh, here are these crates.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now, because now, in addition to all of these other artifacts that are in the fireplace, now he gets to go through artwork.
Speaker B:Hero's artwork has gone to this nun's family.
Speaker A:Yeah, that seems up, right?
Speaker B:Maybe they were the patron.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:Either way.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:She was funding him and him probably.
Speaker A:Florence.
Speaker A:Well, either way, he's gonna get through these.
Speaker A:While Dean finds their priest buddy dead, he has gutted himself and tries to.
Speaker A:Tries to pull Sister Matthias away.
Speaker A:But now she's been possessed, too, because he's like, oh, shit, the ghosts around.
Speaker A:It's going to possess one of us next.
Speaker A:But it gets her too fast, and she's got her super ghost power to throw Dean around.
Speaker A:Now she backhands him across the room.
Speaker B:She back across the room, and she does super fast ghost things.
Speaker B:And she's got a knife.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But luckily, right then, Sam manages to find the crate from Tivoli.
Speaker A:And as Sister Matthias, possessed by Isabella, is choking Dean out and attempting to stab him, she's explaining that the priest had to die for forgiving people.
Speaker B:And this made it his business to forgive the unforgivable.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:And right then, luckily, Sam gets the painting and puts it in the fire.
Speaker A:And Isabella comes out of Sister Matthias.
Speaker B:Right in time, of course, while Dean is yelling at him to burn the journal.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, when she comes out, the hot nun has, like, a seizure.
Speaker B:A seizure?
Speaker B:Don't burn me.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Well, back in hell, Rowena now has a new pet.
Speaker B:She has an adorable little hamster on.
Speaker A:A hamster wheel wearing a cute little necklace that happens to Match the one that Olivet was wearing.
Speaker B:I'm glad that the necklace shrink.
Speaker A:I am too.
Speaker A:So cute.
Speaker A:And she tells Crowley that they made her run around in circles.
Speaker A:So turn about.
Speaker A:It's fair play here.
Speaker A:And that's what she's doing back.
Speaker A:But now she wants something else.
Speaker B:And you won't believe what Olivet said about you before I did this to her.
Speaker A:So you should be thankful, know.
Speaker A:But by the way, Winchester's are Men of Letters.
Speaker A:And he's like, winchester's are my business and you're not killing them.
Speaker B:And she's like, sure, whatever you say.
Speaker A:Bye.
Speaker B:Look over there.
Speaker A:So Sam and Dean leave and they're driving back to the bunker, I assume.
Speaker A:And Dean is like, who mixes blood and bones into the paint?
Speaker A:And he's like, I don't think anyone would do that for me.
Speaker B:No shakes ever cut off part of her finger for me.
Speaker A:And they agree loosely that it was good that Sam didn't just burn the journal as Dean instructed.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But then Sam asks, he's like, dean, you had a pretty long confession.
Speaker A:You know that you can like, talk to me if there's like, stuff you want to talk about.
Speaker A:You know, it's, it's, it's.
Speaker A:I'm here too.
Speaker A:I'm your brother.
Speaker A:We can.
Speaker A:You can talk if you need to.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker A:So he's like, you know, he's also still not convinced that the Mark of Cain is terminal.
Speaker A:They will find a way.
Speaker A:And it's because that's what we do.
Speaker A:We find a way.
Speaker A:And just says, okay, Sammy.
Speaker A:Kind of dismissive.
Speaker A:And so Sam tells us, try, try again like you mean it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So he half ass says it, and then baby drops, drives off into the night.
Speaker B:And that is how we end.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we've got a few folks in this episode.
Speaker B:Do you know who played the hamster?
Speaker A:I don't know who played the hamster.
Speaker A:Sorry to disappoint.
Speaker C:Casting couch is the casting couch.
Speaker C:Were they on that show that time with that guy.
Speaker A:Our father?
Speaker A:Delaney was played by Steve Curtis.
Speaker A:And interestingly, he only has one credit other than this.
Speaker A:Well, one character credit, and that was playing Keith in Zombie Night one and two.
Speaker A:Isabella was played by Catherine Michaud and she.
Speaker A:A lot of her credits are actually from being in.
Speaker A:Being in casting.
Speaker A:So she's done casting on 14 episodes of Supernatural, 12 episodes of Nancy Drew, 13 episodes of the Magicians.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:And then she was a production assistant on a couple episodes of Riverdale.
Speaker A:And she is an actress in an episode of Once Upon A Time in Wonderland.
Speaker A:Sister Matthias was played by Rachel Keller.
Speaker A:She was Simone on Fargo as a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:Cassandra in the Society as a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:Sid in Legion as a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:And Samantha in Tokyo Vice as a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:Olivet has quite the credits.
Speaker A:She was played by Terrell Rothery.
Speaker A:Seems cool.
Speaker A: k for other cartoons into the: Speaker A:But she's been in episodes of X Files, Dead Like Me, Smallville, Izombie, Wayward Pines, Bates Motel and many more.
Speaker A:She was the Philly Am host in Best of Show.
Speaker A:Best in show.
Speaker A:One of my favorite movies.
Speaker A:She was Dr.
Speaker A:Janet Fraser Hemdall in Stargate SG1.
Speaker A:I was like over 70 episodes of that show.
Speaker A:Julia in the movie White Noise 2.
Speaker A:Lane in Hellcats is a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:Patricia in Travelers is a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:Jean and Arrow is a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:Celia in Nancy Drew as a reoccurring character.
Speaker A:And most recently the reoccurring roles in both the good doctor as Dr.
Speaker A:Jen Lancaster and Muriel in Virgin River.
Speaker A:She's also done a ton of Hallmark.
Speaker A:So kind of cool.
Speaker A:Our two faced demon was played by Bruce Green.
Speaker A:He was in a few episodes of Mad tv, one of the best sketch comedy shows ever in my opinion.
Speaker A:And also an episode of Parks and rec.
Speaker A:Frank.
Speaker A:Frank McCarthy was played by Steve Elliott.
Speaker A:He had was in high spirits.
Speaker A:And then in episodes of Painkiller, Jane, Fringe and Once Upon a Time, Pierrot's lover Rachel Sheen was talking about Rachel Sheen.
Speaker A:She was the strip club worker in Deadpool.
Speaker A:And Lisa McCarthy was played by Kelly Ann Woods.
Speaker A:She's been in episodes of Fringe and Izombie, Supergirl, Nancy Drew and Creep show, the new series.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker B:New hamster.
Speaker A:No hamster.
Speaker A:I'm sorry to disappoint.
Speaker A:Someday you'll get yours uncredited.
Speaker B:Maybe in the, maybe in the next episode the hamster will get a credit.
Speaker B:We'll, we'll see.
Speaker B:We'll keep.
Speaker B:We'll keep hoping.
Speaker B:Your turn, your turn to shine.
Speaker A:Bring my flowers.
Speaker A:Anyway, so.
Speaker A:Yeah, what you got?
Speaker B:I mean, I love Rowena.
Speaker B:I think you know her.
Speaker B:Rowena's bit throughout.
Speaker B:This is just hilarious.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I don't, I don't know.
Speaker A:She's a lot.
Speaker A:I haven't decided.
Speaker A:I've.
Speaker A:I think I'm trying to decide if she's so unlikable.
Speaker A:That it bothers me, like, so she's such, like.
Speaker A:I don't know that there's a problem for me with her, but I usually really liked Catholic mysticism.
Speaker A:This just wasn't my favorite episode.
Speaker A:I don't know why.
Speaker A:It didn't sit right with me for some reason.
Speaker B:Also don't feel like there was Catholic mysticism in here.
Speaker A:No, it was.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker A:That's true.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was straight up just a vengeful spirit.
Speaker A:It happened to be in a church.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, and confession was.
Speaker B:Confession.
Speaker B:Like, there wasn't anything, like, spooky about it.
Speaker B:You know, the prayer candles.
Speaker B:Like, it was just.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was just the.
Speaker A:Happened to be in a church.
Speaker A:That's why that's.
Speaker A:That's probably why that's.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:I mean, not.
Speaker B:We didn't really, like, go into the nut, like, why they were nuns or any like that.
Speaker B:That stuff, you know.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We got one small conversation about them finding purpose and that was about it.
Speaker A:Or escaping life or whatever, you know, and that was about it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know why it's like.
Speaker A:Like, I know these are writers that we've enjoyed before.
Speaker A:I just don't know why this episode didn't hit the spot for me.
Speaker A:So there we go.
Speaker A:That's my.
Speaker A:That's my opinion, though.
Speaker A:There was some good spot.
Speaker A:There were some great parts, some great comments, some great lines.
Speaker A:Always, like, cool tidbits.
Speaker A:It just wasn't my favorite.
Speaker A:Yeah, they can't.
Speaker B:They can't all be dumb.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I kind of like.
Speaker B:I mean, I know Piero got his own, but I wish the boy had gotten it more right.
Speaker B:Like, I know the stabbing is one thing, but I wish it had been like, more like an ironic death or like something that was like.
Speaker A:Also just.
Speaker A:Is it his fault that she was an idiot?
Speaker B:He's a.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:But he's not.
Speaker A:You know, she never said that he was.
Speaker A:No, he friend zoned her.
Speaker B:But you.
Speaker B:You know how those boy artists are also, like, she was a virgin and, you know, like, she.
Speaker B:I'm saying she's not crazy ex girlfriend.
Speaker B:She is so.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker B:She had crazy eyes.
Speaker B:But at the same time, he's.
Speaker B:Piero is not.
Speaker B:Not at fault.
Speaker A:No, but also, like.
Speaker A:Like, she was that cuckoo about him to like, make a bunch of people kill themselves.
Speaker B:He's cuckoo enough to be like, mix your blood in my paint.
Speaker A:That's gross.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:They're both.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think Piero had it coming.
Speaker A:So great.
Speaker B:But let's say I don't want him to be stabbed.
Speaker B:I want him to be like a more ironic, just dessert death.
Speaker B:Like, turn him into an Italian hamster.
Speaker A:Choke on paint, become a paintbrush.
Speaker A:Gosh, there you go.
Speaker B:You're a dirty paintbrush and you can never be cleaned.
Speaker B:What a horrible punishment.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:And you're like a Disney paintbrush, too, because you could talk.
Speaker A:You're gonna let him talk now?
Speaker A:He don't get to talk.
Speaker B:Only Italian.
Speaker A:No one can understand him.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:All right, on that note.
Speaker B:Cheers, jerk.
Speaker A:Cheers, bitch.
Speaker A:Devil's Trap Podcast is a Don't get a production Meow.
Speaker C:Devil's Trap Podcast is part of the Ship It Studio Podcast network.
Speaker C:Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Devil's Trap Podcast.
Speaker C:You can follow us on Instagram at Devils Trapp Podcast, Twitter Evilstrap Pod, or you can email us@devilstrapelt trap podcast.com don't forget to subscribe, leave reviews and share with all your friends.
Speaker C:We're at all your favorite podcast outlets.
Speaker C:And@devilstrap podcast.com I'm Babe.
Speaker C:Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
Speaker A:Going up to the spirit in the sky?
Speaker A:It's where I'm going to go when I die?
Speaker A:When I die and they lay me?
Speaker A:I'm going to go to the place that.
